43. Corbin Hayes - Professional Athlete/Entrepreneur

Hailing from Northern California, Corbin Hayes is a retired professional Supercross and motocross athlete. Now, Corbin finds himself as an entrepreneur and business owner of Happy Bad Golf, where he is creating content, restoring golf clubs, and working to build the bridge between the action sports community and the golf community. 

In today's episode, Corbin dives into his early years racing dirt bikes, his struggles with both injuries and mental health, the process of earning his pro points so he could race Supercross, racing during the era of COVIDCROSS, why he chose to step away from racing, how Happy Bad Golf came to be, and so much. 

Also, you can find some of the projects that Corbin and I have worked on together on YouTube: Black & White ft Corbin Hayes and PORTRAIT ft Corbin Hayes are a few specific ones. 

Follow Corbin Hayes on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/corbin_hayes/

Follow Happy Bad Golf on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happybadgolf/

Follow The Failed Experiment on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thefailedexperiment/

Support the the Failed Experiment: https://account.venmo.com/u/kylecowling

Follow The Failed Experiment on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@_TFE

Follow Kyle Cowling on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kylecowling/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay. Welcome back. Episode forty-three. Corbin Hayes. Buckle up. Corbin had some shit to say, and it's a great story. Uh I'm also gonna preface this with um because I forgot to mention it in last week's episode. Um I really do my best to do all of these episodes in person because I feel like that is the best way to have these conversations. Uh however, I also realize a lot of the guests that I want to have, doing them in person is just not realistic because they live out of state. And um I don't make any money doing the podcast, because it's very DIY, as I always say. So uh we have gone the route of doing some episodes remote through uh remote recording. So you will notice, if you didn't notice last week, uh this week's episode with Mr. Corbin Hayes is done remotely. Um so yeah, I just I've had people on my list for since literally day one, three years ago, and just got to the point where I was like, fuck it. The only way I can do these episodes with some guests is gonna be remotely, so that's what we're gonna do. And it still gets the job done. Uh it's still having meaningful and very interesting and powerful conversations, I feel like. So uh just a fair warning that this was done remotely. Um Mr. Corbin Hayes. I don't even know where to start, because this was a good one. Uh if you don't know, Corbin raced professional supercross and motocross for uh from twenty nine to twenty twenty-one. Um and man, it is a it is a roller coaster. Um Corbin had a very unique way of coming up through the ranks and uh trying to get his pro points to go race supercross, which it's probably a whole other conversation about what a joke that system was at the time. I susp I suppose it's better now, but there's definitely people out there that probably I mean come on, if we're not jumping the triples, like why are we allowed to ride the supercross track? But uh so to hear Corbin's struggles. It was something uh So he's very transparent in his uh experience trying to get his pro points and going through the road to Supercross um deal and yeah, fighting through injuries, mental health, um and where he's at today in uh retiring from racing and why he chose to step away from racing and where he's at now and what he's doing now within the golf world, uh with his golf company Happy Bad Golf. Let me make sure I got that right, Corbin. I don't wanna uh blow this for ya. Uh yes, Happy Bad Golf specifically on Instagram. Um what he's doing over there, and uh it's really cool. I'm super proud of Corbin. We've been friends for uh several years now. Obviously met during my time in the drip bike industry. We worked on a handful of projects together. Um and Corbin was always a real one. Just so polite and kind. And I know we didn't we didn't mention her and we should have, but shout out to Corbin's wife, Sarah. Uh, who is undoubtedly undoubtedly one of the backbones behind Corbin's journey and endured quite a lot with him while he was coming up and during his professional time. Um so Corbin or uh Sarah, we love you. You're a badass, and honestly, you should probably come on the podcast so we can share your story. Cause I know you were with Corbin through a lot of this. Um a lot of fun. Corbin's a rad dude. Please give him a follow. Check out his um what he's doing now in the golf world. Uh yeah. If uh you haven't already, you can uh follow him on Instagram at underscore underfield experiment. Um if you want to support Venmo at Kyokowling, you can throw a couple bucks to support the podcast or in the show notes on Spotify or Apple. Uh you can subscribe and get early access to episodes for a few bucks as well. To support a DIY small sponsorless podcast of that Fletcherboat. Uh what else? Probably more wishlist guests. Jenny Taft, Tom DeLong, Justin Braden, Adam Censorello, Katie Maloney, David Kennedy, Brandon Blaine, and others, surely I'm forgetting. Trying to work on uh Justin Williams and the Williams trio as a whole. Thanks to Nick Evanue. Also shout out to Nick who has helped with a bunch of social uh assets for me with the uh black and white profile thumbnails. Um thank you, dude. Uh Nick Romano, actually, he's on the wish list too. Uh had some contact going and then life gets in the way. Um but yeah, anyone out there know him and wanna link the docs, thoughts, that would be cool. Uh yeah. You can subscribe. Apple Spotify, leave a review, rate it, subscribe, that'd be super helpful to uh try and grow this little DIY thing and uh I don't know what. There's no real goal. But I just think it'd be cool to get people more people to listen to the battle stories. Um so I hope everyone enjoys like I say, Corbin. What a story. Wild I mean we get into this life after racing. Um how we got into dirt bikes. Uh we get pretty uh deep into the mental health side of things with him going through injuries and literally not even sure if he'd be able to let the clutch out to go ride his dirt bike and go race. Um how and why he realized it was time to move on from his racing career uh during 2021 and what a weird time he raced Supercross during 2020 and 2021. Uh with COVID cross. Um, and just everything that has come with that. So I hope everyone enjoys. And uh yeah. Let's do it. Episode number 43 with my uh dear friend and just all around uh rad human Corbin Hayes. Hope everyone enjoys. Let's do it. Um but yeah, right, right now she's locked in the Shrek, so we'll see how long that lasts. Um you've listened to these before, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay, cool. You see you you know the drill. Laugh, scream, cuss, cry. Ask me shit. Okay. Um so I wanna I wanna we'll get into what we were just talking about, like you being unemployed for 400 days and it finally like starting to pay off. It is I kind of want to start there, honestly. Um so actually we'll do it differently. Fuck it. We'll start at the end and then we'll we'll jump backwards, we'll do a little like pulp fiction style and bounce around. Um so when you stepped away from racing, was the the intention to go straight into like this is kind of I don't want to call you like a golf influencer, but like what do you call yourself, I guess, to start with in that regard?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I don't even know. I don't even know. Definitely whatever it is, like I've just wanted to make a career for myself in golf because like I was very lost for a long time. It was probably like two full years of just like having no idea what direction I was gonna take my life in after racing. Um, when I was done racing, I was just athlete support for seven, which was fun. But it's like I always knew I didn't want to work in the industry. Like after racing at the highest level, you can only go down. Like there's no there's no room for growth, room for progression. Like, and even just growing up around the industry, like seeing all my buddies that had like the expensive motorhomes and all this, it's like all of them were like construction company owners or trucking company owners. Like, I was from a young age, I knew there like wasn't money in the industry, it was all yeah, people from outside industries spending their money. So I like made that connection like very early on. So I always knew like I didn't want to work in the industry. Like so after I was done racing, I was like, okay, just like what's anything to where I can go make money? And the first kind of opportunity after working at seven was moving back home to Northern California to work at my dad's company. You know, there was some room for growth, there was an open position I can get in and get it, get in at the ground and learn. And so that was kind of my plan. I my girlfriend at the time, I'd convince her to move back up here with me. And it was just a sandblast equipment salesman for about two and a half years, two and a half, like miserable years, because it was just like something I didn't care about doing something like just going from one extreme to where it's like so the time I was three years old, like waking up, all I focused on was getting better on a dirt bike, and then that turned into my career. And then one day it's just like you're not fulfilling that same like passion in a sense, like it is just very difficult to get used to, and like over that like two and a half years, I was just like trying to convince myself, like, oh, you were you know, you were lucky to live a privileged first 23 years, but like welcome to the real world. And then, like, after two years of that, I just broke. I was like, I like if this is the real world, like I give up. Like, like I'm just I'm just not cut out for it. Like, this isn't, like, it's not possible. And like, there was good opportunity to like take over my dad's company, but I was like, I can't do it. And throughout the two years, like there was little hope, like I just I stopped. I'd I'd say, like, as soon as I stopped racing, I didn't really enjoy riding anymore because I wasn't like progressing, and that's what I was like really addicted to was like putting in the work and like seeing results, and not only like on the result sheet, but just like feeling like accomplished, like I went to the track today and I know I was better on a drug bike. That was like a really cool feeling to me. So being done racing and not have anything to like care about, essentially, to like get like there was no reason for me to get better, so it was no longer like fun. So I picked up golf as just my roommate was doing it, and I was really fucking bad at it. So I was like, oh, perfect. This is something I could like get better at, and like try to like you know, use the same skills I had for racing into something else. So that's all it was. It was just like the first outlet I picked up after racing. So it was just like kind of funneled everything in. So that was that's all golf was throughout that like two years is like a little escape from the real world to like feel like I was training, progressing, like whatever my normal routines were that I applied to racing. I just like kind of started funneling those into just like golf as my hobby. Yeah, and then uh I had some opportunities to uh I became a like an assistant video editor for this uh pretty big uh like golf podcast and like YouTube production company, essentially. Um, so I started kind of getting in my foot in the door in the golf space um from behind the scenes perspective. And just the more kind of people I interacted with in the golf world, I was like, oh no, these are normal people, not professional athletes that work their whole life to get to the highest level, that are working in a fun industry and making a living. And so it was like for two years straight, I was just like, work sucks, life sucks, but this is what it is to like make a living to provide for a family. And then I slowly started seeing glimpses of like people working in golf that were enjoying their life, making really good money. Yeah, it was like, well fuck, why if they can do it, why can't I? So I just started trying to figure out how to make that okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Alive back to it. Um I think it's it's uh good self-awareness on your part and interesting to hear that like you knew after you were done racing that you didn't want to work in the industry. Because I think we know that a lot of guys retire and they just kind of get recycled back into the industry in certain positions that like it's just like a weird thing because it's obviously like they don't necessarily know anything else but this one thing, but they also maybe aren't necessarily like qualified to be in the that role that they have, and then I feel like that's kind of maybe what holds the sport back sometimes because you have people with no education and only rode dirt bikes trying to do certain things, and it just like we're like stuck on this weird hamster wheel, you know. So it's cool to hear you be like, I knew I didn't want to stay in the industry after I was done racing.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yeah, and like I didn't know why I didn't. I just like it was only recently that I was like, oh, that makes sense, you know, but uh yeah, it was just something about like I just didn't I knew it wasn't like the long term. I mean I've told people this too. It's like I didn't even plan on like making it out of the sport, like turning 30 was never like in my in my life plan, you know. Like I was friends with Jesse Masterpool when he passed away. So like I was in sixth grade when like my first buddy passed away, and since then it's been numerous things, but like from that age, I like completely accepted like that was a reality and like most likely a possibility. And it's like racing was the only thing I cared about, so it didn't affect me at all. It was like almost like a a guarantee that I didn't have to do anything else then. It was just like perfect then on my whole life is just riding dirt bikes. That's exactly how I wanted to go, you know? Yeah, so it was like that part of it too, is like, no, like my whole life revolves around like riding and racing, not working around moto, like not washing, like not changing tires. Like that wasn't what I like wanted to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

What um what was your last year racing? Was it 2021 or 22?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

21, yeah. So my last year racing was like the the residency round or residency year.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

West Coast was Orlando, Daytona, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas. And then I believe it, I didn't make it to the last three, which was I think Georgia or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Oh, yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, wherever Z Max is.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's right. I forgot about that. That was a weird year because yeah, the e the West Coast was really on the east, and the east was kind of on the west, because I did the West Coast swing. I did like the first three or four races at Houston, and then I did I think the last half of the I think it ended in Salt Lake again that year. So weird time. Yeah, very weird. Um so backtracking now, I guess to the beginning. Um born and raised, you're a NorCal guy, right? Whereabouts?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, so right next to Hangtown, I grew up 10 minutes from Hangtown. So that's since I was riding dirt bikes, that's been a my favorite place of all time, is Hangtown. So yeah, Folsom and the surrounding towns, I moved around a lot, um, but never more than like 20 minutes away from Hangtown.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

And finally got down. Always wanted to be down in Southern California, like seeing the Southern California kids at like the Loretta's regionals, like all being able to ride Glenn Helen every week, like I was super envious of like all the kids down there. Um, but it wasn't until like 2016 I spent a little bit of time down there. Um and then yeah, it wasn't until like 2019 I moved down there full time.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Oh wow, okay. What was it like growing up in that part of California for you?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I loved growing up here, it was just always like it's quiet, way slower than Southern California. There's we moved when I was like four or five, but like had two tracks on my property like growing up, so that's where I learned how to ride and stuff. But as far as like everything's kind of catered to and still is like it's even worse nowadays, but all the tracks up here are super catered to like vet riders, so it was like the ceiling to kind of progress up here is a lot lower than Southern California, and honestly, part of the reason why I don't even ride anymore because it's not fun to me. Like I like I like super cross whoops and triples and like not 10-foot tabletop, so it's just like nobody hits me up to go ride. I'm just like, dude, the chances of like having a mechanical failure, like I'm relatively healthy from my racing career. If my bike walks up on a 10-foot table and I get seriously injured, like I'd never be able to live with myself, like surviving some of the like crazy tracks and crazy jumps I've hit, and then like something like that, just like out of my control happening. That's so that's that's what keeps me from riding a lot these days.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Do you own a bike still or no?

SPEAKER_01 19:24

I have a 125. I have a 2006 YZ 125 that I restored with my dad, but that's it.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah. So I have something to ride, but it's not like a like a fun thing. It's not a yeah. It's not a waste 250 with an A kit, so it's not that exciting.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah, yeah. Um, how was school for you growing up? Was that something you enjoyed or not so much?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Not at all. Uh not at all. Um I went to my so my mom has uh owned her own Montessori preschool for my whole life. So I was put into Montessori school at a young age. And if you or people listening aren't familiar with Montessori school, it's essentially just like a curriculum that's based around, I guess, like common sense. So like in the preschool specifically, the like jobs you're doing isn't like I don't know, read this, but it's like essentially like at a fundamental development age, there's like jobs like you're pouring water into like different cups and stuff. It's very like common sense, kind of like I don't know, I should probably know like the better definitions as my mom owned the school for like 20 years, but um, so I went to a Montessori kindergarten through eighth grade school. So I was at the same school from kindergarten all the way until high school, and so same classmates, same everything. So it was like very small kind of community at this school, so I was always known as like the kid that was missing class to go race or coming in on crutches. Um yeah, I know, but I also hated that aspect of it. Like I didn't want people to know my business, I just wanted to ride and not have to like explain myself too, and a little bit too, like at that age, like because it was so small and like I was known as like the moto kid, it was like people didn't understand that like I was taking it like seriously, like as my job at that age, like already, and like in my head. And so like the kids in at school, like not being able to relate to that like mindset was like super frustrating for me.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah. Uh how um how did Durbox even come Into the picture for you. Did your uh dad ride, or how did it kind of come about?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

So it's a pretty good story. So my dad actually rode one time when he was younger. My dad, but my dad was uh like an Olympic diver in high school and like throughout his whole childhood. So he had um he had a scholarship to UCLA right out of high school to go to for diving. And I forget the timeline, I think it was like two months. It was the summer he graduated high school. Um his buddy convinced him to go race a dirt bike for the first time. So they went out to Sack Raceway, just outside of Sacramento, where I grew up racing. And he had never ridden before, signed up for a race, grabbed a lucky penny on the starting line, put it in his boot, went out and snapped that leg, and lost his diving scholarship.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

So that was my dad's introduction to dirt bikes.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And then from there, I met my mom, had three kids, and then threw all of us on dirt bikes and decided that one of us was probably gonna be a professional and it ended up. So that's yeah, that was his introduction and convinced him that this is definitely a good good choice.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

That should have convinced him the other way around.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, you would think. Fascinating. So yeah, um, we were always going on camping trips. Um my I'm the youngest of three. My older brother's five years older, and then my sister's two years older. Um, so they both rode throughout probably till high school. So we were always racing. I was always the one that like took it more seriously, though. They would just kind of come to the local races just to just to do it because we kind of did it as a family. Yeah. Um, but we had I grew up with a bunch of um foster siblings too. Um so my parents adopted um, I think two or three, I can't remember which ones got adopted or not. But um, yeah, so they all rode too, so it was always just a family thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Um what did um what was your dad doing for work at this time?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

My dad was a salesman, so he went to work with my grandpa um in the printing press industry. Um so we worked for a company that sold the printing presses to the newspapers. Um so he was traveling during the week and then we'd get home and we'd go to the track on the weekend.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Okay. Um for you getting on a dirt bike, was it something that came like pretty naturally for you? And was it like, yeah, this is this is it?

SPEAKER_01 24:52

For sure. Yeah, like I literally never thought about anything else. I literally did not watch cartoons as a baby or a kid. Like it I watched many wars, VHS tapes, yeah, yeah, and recordings of the supergrass races. Like, that's literally all I watched. Yeah. Um the first time I ever rode a bike was I was two years old, and my dad was just getting home late on a Friday from out of town and pulled into we had a huge front lawn and like the size of a football field, and we lived on this kind of cul-de-sac with probably uh 10, 12 different houses, and uh with a bunch of kids that were all my older brother's age. So they were probably like eight or nine. I was like two or three at the time, and I had my PW50 and was doing laps out on the front lawn, and my dad pulls in, and my brother had set up a fire log with a piece of plywood on it, and then got all his buddies that lived on the street to lay down on it, or lay down just beyond it. So there were seven of my brother's friends laying down, and me at almost three years old coming across the lawn and jumping them. And that's what my dad was the first time my dad saw me riding without training wheels was he pulled in from work and saw that.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Jumping the kids in the neighborhood. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Dad's losing it on my older brother, and he's like, he's been doing it all day, it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

That's so wild.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Uh from a very young age, it was it was pretty apparent. Like, that's all I wanted and was going to do.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah. So how did the do you remember when your first race was? Or where it was at?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

My first race was definitely at Sack Raceway.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

It's like in this area, it's it's closed down now. I think they closed down two, three years ago. But it's like an iconic Friday night series, like the most plain, boring track. It was on property with a drag strip too, so they had like local events on the drag strip and then the local motocross night series on the same property. But yeah, that's where almost everybody's like career gets started around here.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah. At what point did it start to become more serious for you with the racing?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

It's hard to say. Like it was never taken that seriously. I was pretty good on like 50s and 65s. Like, we went and did like the whole West Coast like arena cross series on 65s and stuff. So it was like taken seriously. Like my dad was and mom were like putting money into us traveling and racing from a really young age. But on like 80, right when I got on 85s, I like struggled a little bit, so we weren't doing like Loretta qualifiers for anything. And then I'd say once we finally got on like super minis, I started to kind of come into my own and like was being up there. Um, I never qualified for Lorettas on little bikes, didn't have the money to travel to Tennessee, so it was never really a focus. Um but comp edge in 2012. Um my last year on Super Minis, and I was in qualifying position on the third moto, it was back when it was three-moto format, and ended up coming over a blind jump and landing on somebody's bike that was down and got knocked out. Didn't make it to Loratus, but that's kind of that weekend for me at least. Maybe maybe my dad's opinion would be differently, but that's where I like because there was Orange Brigade kids there, and like, you know, all the good Southern California kids, and I was like beating them the first, you know, until I landed on the kid. Yeah. Um, so for me, that was like, oh, like I can actually beat these kids. Because for me, I like I always struggled with confidence. And like looking at like the kids in Southern California and like my buddies that had better bikes and the big motorhomes at the track, I always just like I was like, oh yeah, they got the better stuff, oh yeah, they live in the better area. Um so that weekend for me really kind of like flipped a mental switch. Like, no, I regardless of like my situation, like I can be as good as them.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

And the following year, since I had didn't make it to Loretta's, I was eligible for the C class. Um, so that was 2013. I went to Loretta's in 450C um in the first trip to Tennessee and went like I think like 12-3, and then was leading the final moto and would have got the overall, and then my bike blew up. So like would have would have had a Loretta's C title.

SPEAKER_06 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

And then from there it was like, alright, like, time to go up to I actually ended up going down to 125 to do schoolboy one and two, but probably 2014, that 2015, that's where it was like, okay, like let's make this my career.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Yeah. Um, who were some of the kids you were you were racing with at that time that were coming up with you?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

So I grew up with the the like Moseman and Cole Barbieri, and there's other families that were in the same group too. Um, but yeah, like Cole Barbieri is one of my best friends. That's when I started first started going out in Southern California, I was staying at his his place. Um but yeah, like grew up with Josh Moseman and then Michael Moseman. Um, so I was around like some really, really good writers, like from this Northern California era, area.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

What uh whatever happened to Cole? Because I remember him like as an amateur, and especially I think at the time I was probably at Verb doing stuff. And I remember him seeing him like all the time. That kid was he was fast.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

He was insane, like he had all the talent and the world and the energy to like go as far as he wanted to. He broke his femur, I think, three times in like the span of like a year and a half, if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, he I remember the last at the last point, it was like they had to like it was so bad they couldn't rot it anymore. They just essentially had to like wrap it in almost like a chicken wire.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

It's completely wrong, but I remember it being like a crazy so he just had lots, lots of injuries, and then he really he's now um runs his dad's trucking company and loves it, and he's got a a custom big rig uh like company as well, and like a uh I think nine seven two customs. Um he's killing it, has two kids, and has enjoyed post-racing life more than more than he enjoyed racing life and getting injured. Yeah, but yeah, he was cool. He was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Yeah, he was good. Um who were for you like some of the guys racing supercross when you were younger that like you looked up to and were like, yeah, I want to be like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I mean for me, McGrath, like I was number two all the way until I went to Loretta's in 2013. So yeah, until I was 15 for the first 15 years, I was number two, so it was always like Jeremy McGrath.

SPEAKER_05 32:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

A super young kid, Jeremy McGrath and Travis Pastrana. I actually have the video. Um, I don't have the audio with it though, but the first time I ever rode my PW, I get off the bike and I'm like walking to my mom holding the camera and I'm checking out my gear, and I walk up and I tell the camera I'm Travistrana. But like in a super baby voice to where I can't even pronounce his name. But yeah, Pastrana was like by far my favorite, and like still to this day. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that guy.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Do you have a video of that?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Oh, you'll have to send that to me. We'll do that for uh reel for Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

I'm Pastrana.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

That's so good. Um what um so at what point did you like towards the peak of your amateur career, was there any support you're getting from any manufacturers or any brands within the sport?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Uh yeah, never any uh support for manufacturers. Um 2016 uh I think 20 2014 I went and Loretta's in School Boy One and I had a broken shoulder blade at the time and I didn't know it. So I arm just kept going to sleep and I got like 30th or something. Um and then 2015 I think I got hurt, broke my collarbone before the regional, so I didn't go. And then 2016 was like my breakout year in the B class. Um I won College Boy title that title at Arizona Open in the end of 2015, and then 2016 I got uh another College Boy title at Cal Classic, won some Motos at Mammoth, and then got fifth at Loretta's. So like that year I was talking to Yamaha about like maybe getting a little bit of support, um, because we were getting support through one of the local dealerships that was helping me out a ton. Um, and then that year too, I I connected with seven, and that was like the start of our relationship to where I ultimately went there for and worked there after I was done racing. Um, but yeah, it was nothing ever crazy. It was really, I mean, the biggest support I had was um my stepmom came in in 2016, my dad remarried, and she was fully, fully stoked on racing. Um, she had actually owned a BMW race shop like 10 years in the past, so she was familiar with like the kind of motorsports in general and was a fan of it. Uh so she was you know willing to do whatever it took to get me to the professional level. And then um my dad and I actually for a few years lived with uh Tyson Vulan, um uh Max's uncle and Town's brother. Um, and so he was training me for free for about three years, letting us live with him for free for three years. My dad would go to work and Tyson and I would go to the track. Um so those two, without those two, like I never would have done anything. I I wouldn't have even had a bike to ride. I'd just be going to high school and skating.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Maybe would have found a golf club, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Um how was how was your relationship with your your parents like throughout your your amateur career when you were coming up? Because I know some kids obviously we know the story can get pretty ugly. Um so for for you guys, how was it?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

It was looking back, it was tough, but I never really like cared to like dissect things, you know, because it was just like I was getting to ride, so I didn't really care about anything else. Um It really got tough once I was like racing supercross and like had a couple years under my belt and like understood what I needed to get to the next level to try and get a factory ride or try and get a support ride. And my parents were still like treating it the same way as you know the C class and like hey, this is like what you should do. It's like no, I've raced pro a couple years now, I've seen what other people are doing, I know what works best for me. Like, yeah, you can trust me, like this is this is my job, like I I'm not gonna, you know, so that kind of thing. But yeah, looking back is at a young age, it was it was fine. My dad was hard on me, but he's never he understood that like he never raced. So he he was you know good at seeing what was happening, but he also like every time he would approach something, it wasn't like I could do better type thing. He like understood that like the sport is hard, everything's hard, everything's happening fast, like it is what it is ultimately, but just like you better try your best type thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Yeah. What year did um you make the jump from amateur to racing the supercross?

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Um that was a long process. Um 2016 got fifth at Loretta's in the B class and then turned A right after that. So end of 2016 technically. Um, but then I had a super gnarly like sickness for like two, three months, didn't know what it was. Ultimately, they ended up just assuming it was Epstein Bar to where I was just like dead for like just full like mono symptoms for like two, three months. And so that was I literally remember Dodge National Um the end of 2016 was gonna be my first A race, and on the way to the track in the morning, we just went to the hospital instead of going to practice because I was like felt like I was about to fall into a coma. Um so that was tough. Like, took two, three months off the bike just trying to get healthy again, and then um was getting ready for Arena Cross because at the time that was the Ricky Carmichael road to supercross. That was the only path you had to getting a supercross license.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Um so 2017 uh Portland Supercross, or Portland Arena Cross was my first arena cross. Um qualified decent in the night show, uh, was running good in heat race, and then ejected off the bike and snapped my Tib Fib. So that was the start of 2017, and it was pretty gnarly. There was the rhythm was single table, single, table, single. So it was either step on step off, table over single, or single over table, step on step off. And I went to step on step off and clipped the off, but still decided to go for the double out and ended up just full boner air, ditched the bike, came down like 10-15 feet, landed on my feet, rolled out, stood up and was looking for my bike. It ultimately ended up going over the berm and being on the backside of the berm. But I took like three steps walking around looking for my bike, and I felt my ankle like wobble, and I was like, what the fuck? Did I just break the hinge on my brand new boots? Like, these are brand new Barnier SD12s. Like, how did I just break the hinge, you know? Yeah, and I looked down and the boot was perfectly fine, and I realized that my Tib Fib was completely snapped inside of the boot, and I was walking on a snapped leg.

SPEAKER_06 41:10

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Almost held together by my boot. So I quickly just laid back down and like my stomach just sank, and I was yelling at somebody to come carry me. Um so they carried me out into the like the medical room for like the NBA team. Shot delauded up my nose, and I was on my way to the hospital and didn't feel any pain until a few days later after I got a rod and plate put in my leg. But so that was like a seven-month healing process from that. So that ultimately basically led all the way up to the following year of 2018. Doing arena cross again. Um did a few rounds. I think started in Denver, did decent in Denver, then we went to Kansas. I did good, decent in Kansas, and then it the series came back to Portland. Luckily wasn't at the same arena, it was across the street at the hockey arena this time. Um, but all I needed to do was qualify for the lights main, I think, because I needed like one one and a half more points, I think. And it was like however it worked out. I think I just needed to qualify for the lights main. Or the main main. One of them. Um I qualified like third over third or to fifth overall, like best qualifying session I had my whole arena cross career. Filling like a million bucks going into the night show.

SPEAKER_05 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

And first lap of the heat race, dabbed my foot on the landing of doubling out of the rhythm section. I'd been triple-tripling it all day with the gnarliest ruts, and I was mid-pack on the first lap, bubbling through it, and got a little cross-rudded, dabbed my foot, and exploded my ACL.

SPEAKER_06 42:59

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Back five years in Portland, Arena Cross, snapped my tip head, 365 days later, tore my ACL. So that was another like seven-month healing process. Basically, took up all of 2018 and had like a full mental breakdown throughout that healing process. Like, I was like, this isn't meant for me. Like, I've never been that religious, but I was like, who, whatever higher power, like they don't want me to race supercross. Like, all my friends I grew up racing with had gotten their licenses now two years ago, and we're two years into their supercross career, traveling all over the country racing. I can't even make it through a day program at Rena Cross, and I'm sitting on crutches for the second year in a row watching all my friends on TV. Like, just fully spiraled mentally to where I ended up like seeing a sports psychologist. Just to like, because I couldn't even like wake up in the morning without just having a mental breakdown and just being like so hard on myself, so depressed, so confused, just asking why. Um, but thankfully, after like seeing three of them, I found one, this guy, Todd, who is my sort of sports psychologist, that like literally saved my life. Like, I still give him all the credit in the world that like I have no idea how I would have been able to continue down the like path I was going down without him like coming and helping me and make sense of things and restructuring like how I went about not only like racing in my mindset towards racing, but like why I was racing, why I did certain things in the past, and like what mindset I was in that kind of not led things to happen but allowed them to kind of sneak in. Um so yeah, I he helped me a lot throughout the healing process of my ACL. Not only him, but like obviously going to physical therapy. I worked with some awesome physical therapists to get me back physically. Um, but at that point, 2019, that's when they kind of went away with Arena Cross, and the Supercross Futures came in. So by the time I healed from my ACL, uh beginning of 2019, Supercross Futures, um, Arizona was the first round. And my points, that was the other thing too. You only had, I think it was like 12 or like 15 months to where your points stayed alive. So for the third year in a row, my points like expired. So all of the like agreement cost points that I got the previous year, I was too, I was injured for long enough to where they just didn't count towards the following year.

SPEAKER_06 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Um, so I went into Supercross Futures needing to get all my points over again. And so I went to Houston, uh or sorry, went to Arizona was the first round, and like I was still like made a lot of progress with my psychologist, but like still hadn't confirmed that I was going to even be able to like let the clutch out when the gate drops. Like I was so mentally fucked up. I I literally went there like not knowing if when the gate drops, my fingers were gonna like be able to let me leave the gate. And so, like, I think I got third in the heat raise, coal-fright right to the main. And I mean, this was dude, the first year of futures was so fucked up. This this track was as flat as the parking lot. They had no idea what they were doing for building these amateur tracks yet. And it's Arizona, the biggest stadium on this the scene. So everybody's fourth gear pinned on just a flat floor. It was the the weekend Jalee Swole uh snapped his femur over the finish because it was literally a 15-foot double, and you had like the whole stadium to run up to it. So he like you had to scrub everything and flatland everything so hard he clipped his foot peg and snapped his femur. So yeah, there was like and there's like 95 people trying to qualify for the main event that paid out for only the top 10. So it was just chaos. So got third in heat race. That was huge, was confirmed to myself that I'd be able to let the fingers off the clutch. Um, got in a pile up in the main, didn't get any points, but was like stoked. I was like, okay, I can race. Like, we're good.

SPEAKER_06 47:38

Yeah, we're good.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Went to Houston, did good in Houston. Um, and then next round in uh, or maybe there's more, I don't know. But ultimately that year, 2019, uh, Nashville, I got I won the heat race. Uh and there was like a hurricane, honestly, that came through, and they were thinking about canceling the mains, and I was stoked because that would mean I would have got either first or second, the way the heat races worked out, and would have got all of my points and got my supercross license. Ultimately, they let the monsoon come through, and they were like, alright, we're going racing. And I was like, Alright, fuck. Like, here we go. Ended up getting third in the third in the main, finally got my supercross license. Still to this day, like, I'd say my wedding now is is probably the best day of my life, but like that weight of like three years of unknown and like my dreams getting lifted, like not being able to come true, getting that weight lifted off my shoulders, like riding out of that stadium, knowing like all the doubt, like I have a supercross license. Like, yeah, I raced supercross like that weight off my shoulders from three years of injuries and mental breakdowns, like that was crazy. So, first first supercross race was the following weekend in Denver. We went straight to Denver and I raced my first supercross the like April of 2019.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

It's so wild.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Um it's so wild that like obviously we during my film career, you and I worked together and like you know how to get around a supercross track. You are a night, you were a night show guy when you raced, and knowing that like it this was the process for you to get that, even though you like had the skill set, and we know people that are out there that had their license at that time, that it's like my guy can't even get like jump the finish line and he's out there to like hear your process. And then I even remember like um when I I had done some stuff with Zach Cummins at the time, and he had to do that like Arena Cross thing too. And then when he got his license and went to Supercross, I remember him saying it's like, dude, it's not even like fair because Arena Cross was so much gnarlier than Supercross, so it makes no sense that we have to basically like be kamikaze pilots in Arena Cross to go race Supercross where like it's way more safe.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Yeah, it was I think they got a little pushback when that was a thing. Like they were like, what are we doing here? And like kind of Ricky got some bad rap before it. But I don't think they get enough still to this day. Like they didn't be held accountable for that shit. Like that was I was talking about this with somebody recently. I was like, I don't think I could have like raced in a worse era. Like, so 20 like so that's how I had to go get like I that's how I had to get my license to get there. And then 2019 I was able to squeak in one round and convince my parents to let me go race that run round one round instead of getting ready for Hangtown in like four weeks. So thank God I went and raced Denver, and that was an amazing experience. But the next year was 2020. So I raced the first three rounds, and then stuff shut down, whatever. I got to race the the residency rounds up in Salt Lake, but like I'm sitting on the line next to Ferendis making $300, and there's not a single fan in the stand. I'm like, this is the most stressful fucking practice day. Like, why the fuck am I even doing this? Like, I'm on a privateer bike at 7,000 elevation. I can barely get over this triple in first gear. Like, there's nobody here to see it. It's fucking Wednesday. Like, what are we doing? Oh man, that was like my whole dream was to race supercross in front of a sold-out Angel Stadium, and I'm at a college campus with not a single person in the stands. Like, what the fuck is going on?

SPEAKER_04 52:02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

That whole thing, because I yeah, we were I was up there as well that whole residency. I think we ended up staying like 30 something days up there and for Red Bull Motospy stuff, and I remember we weren't gonna go. I feel like I can say this shit now because I don't work in the industry, so like I don't really give a fuck. Um but like we were we weren't gonna go because it was like we weren't gonna get any access on the track from Feld. And it was like, okay, well, we're not gonna drive up to Salt Lake and spend three, four weeks there if we can't shoot on the floor. Like that makes no sense. And then we find out through Feld and whatnot, no, it's good. Um we'll have access, they'll give us the access. Like, okay. So it was me and Wes, and then I think it was Brandon Carter at the time that was had just started working for Verb road trip out there. Wes got there before us, and I remember the first thing we had to do was go straight to like their COVID testing site. We had to do the nose swabs. The nose swabs that like went to your brain. Dude, I was so scared. That whole drive there, knowing that that was what we had to go do, I was like, fuck.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

I also did the clip of me getting it back here. I have one.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

I don't know where it is. I think it's on my phone, but Wes got a photo of me with the thing up my nose. I'm just like, oh um drive straight to the stadium, do the test, pass, and then right away we find out Feld has decided we're not allowed to shoot any of the racing whatsoever inside the stadium for safety reasons. So we can only stay in the pits, and we were only we were each assigned to a team. So I was assigned to the the TLD KTM, whatever they were at the time, team. Wes was with uh factory Red Bull KTM. And we could only stay in that pit. We couldn't go walk around the pits, and we could go into the stadium to watch, but we couldn't bring our cameras. So that was that was luckily there was like stuff for us to do during the week with some of the guys, but and then Kenny, we were doing stuff with Kenny, but he was having a really hard time, I think, with Honda and whatnot, so we had kind of limited access to him, and it was just like it was cool overall, but like you know, typical typical felt politics and bullshit. Like we're like, cool you fuckers.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yeah. But yeah, that was it was good that like we got to race. It was like that was good, but it was yeah, it was but like with what I was saying, like I that I literally don't feel like I could have picked, like I ultimately raced for at Supercross once I got my license for three years, and the three years were 19, 20, and 21.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

So essentially, yeah, two years of COVID years.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

The only normalcy I got was three races in 2020 before COVID hit.

SPEAKER_05 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

And it's like 2021 was my last season, my best season, had a great program, great preseason, and it was like go. I went and lived in Florida for a month and rode places I'd never ridden before and was, you know, just a not like a routine thing for me. So it was like, yeah, it was just it was tough.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

It didn't wasn't there something in 21 at one of the rounds for you and Sarah, like you guys got in trouble with Feld or something of like COVID protocol. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 55:39

What yeah, Dallas, um they were threatening to like kick us out because we were didn't have our masks on in our pit.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Oh, that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yeah. So it was like I was working on my bike, I think she was like eating just like at our pit, and they came over and like threatened to kick us out.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Fucking I and I remember so at the Salt Lake stuff in 2020, where they were like, you can go into the into the stadium and watch, but you can't bring your cameras. And like you had to wear your mask, they would do your temperature check, and like they had all these things in place, and like me and Wes, we were staying in this like a condo apartment thing in Park City. It's like we're together all the time. And then we go into the stadium to sit, and they're like, Oh, you gotta sit. You gotta sit three chairs away from each other, you can't sit next to each other. We're like we we are literally living together right now for like the whole month, and like you were wearing the masks and you're taking our temperatures for real, and it was because they only had to sit on one side of the stadium, so that way it like gave the illusion that nobody was in the stadium, but there was all the like media and uh team staff was on one side of the stadium. They wouldn't sh really show that side of the stadium, I guess, on the broadcast. But they were like, well, you know, just in case we gotta make sure it looks like we have everyone, you know, uh six feet apart or whatever it is. And I don't think COVID was a hoax, by the way, but like the shit in place was a joke.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to see from trust back, but like still in the moment we're like, uh like you said, we're all going back to the same Airbnb after this. Like, what the fuck am I doing here?

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Like none of it made any sense. Um what a uh so going back to 2019, what was that Denver Supercross like for you? Like you finally did it, you're actually racing supercross.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

It was it was amazing. Like Zach said, it was like the easiest day of racing I'd ever had. Like going from the week before on like a kid's track, essentially, literally 90 people that are like the tracks were so easy, like you could have been a C-class kid and got around those Supercross Futures tracks just fine to where you could get a top five and get your supercross license. Like, there's no separation on those tracks, so it was like 90 people of a good enough skill level to all get top five. So you're just 90 people out there trying to kill each other for five spots, yeah. To where the next weekend it's like, no, you're in you're in C practice with four other people, like go out, here's your time on the track. Like, you get three practice sessions, one's not even timed. Go learn the track, like everything was just so much easier, it's like felt so much calmer, and just like a professional sport, like should, you know, like it makes everything made sense, like um, but just like it's for myself, like it was full dream come true. Like I'll never forget the feeling. It was so cool too, because that was 2019 Denver when it was snowing, like the whole week leading up. So the first ever the free practice, it was still snowing. So, like the first time I ever rode Supergross Drag inside a stadium, um, it was snowing. It was it was pretty sick.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

Your whole supercross creation like triple was that day.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Yeah, it's a little small for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

Can you go get it for me? Go get it and I'll open it for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Um yeah, it's in there. Your uh your whole supercross career is just very unique. Racing first ones in the snow, all the COVID shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Yeah, it was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

You want upbeat? You want to sit and chat with us?

unknown 1:00:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

Yeah, 20 2021 was was crazy too. Like it I only raced three years. I honestly like the biggest thing for me was like I met my now wife and was like, I from that mindset I had when Jesse Masterpool passed away, like, I carried that all the way like up until full grown adult. And then I met my wife, and I was like, oh wait, that's not like that was the first moment I realized, like, wait, I that's a I've been wrong this whole time. Like, essentially, like, this is not a way to like view life. And unfortunately, like as a motocross athlete, it it helps if you don't think about the future or anything else mattering, like you're just selfish, and like I just have to be good on a dirt bike, and if I die, it doesn't matter. Yeah, like that's very beneficial to be a fast super cross racer. Um, but when you're barely making any money doing it, it doesn't make sense to approach life that way. So yeah, when I went met my wife, I really switched up and was like, okay, like I can make enough money racing to race the following year, but I'm never gonna make enough money unless something drastically changes and I start going six seconds a lap faster. She's like, So I'm gonna need to figure out how to make a lot of money to like keep this chick around and like start a life for us. Yeah. Um, so yeah, 21 ultimately ended up being the last year just because I was like, it had been such a an I want to say tough, but it was like it wasn't tough, it was just annoying. Like all the shit I like ended up having to go through throughout the arena cross process, throughout the the COVID with racing, like 21 was like the most the best year I had, and the most normal when it was like the residency rounds and stuff, and it was like it was cool. I got a bunch of independent sponsors all on my own and like funded the whole series. I got but like even that, like one of my sponsors was this guy named Marty who's a big uh real estate guy in in the area up here, and he helped me back. He was one of the the Bolins friends, so he helped me back in the day when one of my bikes blew up and my dad didn't have money to fix it. He lent me a bike so I could keep practicing for like six months.

unknown 1:03:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Um, and so he was helping cover all my flights for the 21 season, and uh so it was that's what it was. It was it the for me the series went Orlando, Daytona, Texas, Texas, Texas, and then it was Atlanta at the ZMAX drag strip. And I just landed in Dallas and got a text from Marty, and he's like, hey, like make sure making sure you're like your flights were all good to Dallas. Hope everything is you know good.

unknown 1:03:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Let me know what we need to do to get your flights for Atlanta in two weeks. And I text him back, like, thank you so much. Like, you know, let's make sure I get through these three races healthy, and then we'll like we'll look at flights. Like, thank you so much, appreciate it. Yeah, he took his own life the following day. Oh that was the like last time I talked to him was like just a sponsor reaching out, like making sure I had flights, you know. So like that was difficult, like thing to process at the time. Like, it was just they're always something, and then like so Texas went good, like my wife and I got on TV, like I rode great, had was feeling good, but like not sure what it was. It was a combination of a lot of things, but I remember the last round in Dallas, I'm just sitting in the stands, like, just like this is like this isn't as fun as it should be. Like, I was riding great, but like fighting for my life just to like qualify near the 20s, like, and I'm just like, what is what do I gotta do to like break through? Like, I feel like I'm riding great. I what the hell is going on? Like, why am not only I feel like I'm riding great, but I'm like, I'm here racing supercross. Like, this was so fucking hard for me to get to this point. Excuse my language, Violet. Oh, you're good. I was like, I've worked so hard to get here. I should be really like happy with just being here right now. And I'm I'm not, I'm honestly like stressed out of my mind. Like, I'm just spending money to be here and like not being proud of my results. Like, so I was very like confused on what feelings I was feeling just sitting in the stands, like in between, like just qualified, fine, qualified like 32nd, whatever. Like, I'm in the show, it's fine. And I'm just sitting out in the stands, just like with my head in my lap, just waiting for the night show, like not stoked.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Um, so we got home from Dallas and trying to figure out how to get flights and how to get to Atlanta. I don't have that much money for signups. I'm having to reach out to some uh Sponsors to try and pull some money together. And my wife and I were actually living with at a buddy's house at the time with I think four other people. It was a really sick setup. It was a lot of dudes in one house, but it was um Brett Metcalf's old house that he had built in Elsinore. So, like had a dope race shop in the backyard for all my stuff. Like, super sick setup. Just a lot of heads in the house. Um they he bought a new house at the time, and we were all gonna move into the new house in Wildemar. Um, so we got home from Dallas and got told that hey, you guys will not be moving into the new house with us. Um so I immediately pivoted from trying to figure out how I can get to get to my bike that's in Atlanta for the super last three supercross races of the year, and it was like, okay, I have $1,500, like we gotta go find a place to live. Um so ultimately Dallas was the last supercross race I ever did.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

Um how uh how were the for you like in those moments, how were the emotions? Is there like anger, bitterness, or is it like okay, like I guess this is it. We're moving on to the next thing. Um kind of what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Yeah, in the moment I was like it was tough, but it was like so many different like things. It all just ended up happening at like the same time. It was like going into the 2020 season, I hadn't talked to my my dad in like a year because he didn't agree with how I wanted to go about training and where I wanted to live. Like he wanted me to stay home in Northern California, and there's not a single supercast track within 600 miles. So I don't know how I would have done that. Like, just just the stuff like that. So like I already like me out out racing on my own was like causing trouble with me and my dad's relationship. I wasn't being able to have money to support my girlfriend and like take care of her how I wanted to. Yeah, I now didn't have a place to live. Like my sponsors, the people I did have a really a lot of support from, like one of them just killed himself. Like, it was just so many things, and I just took them as signs. Like, on top of me just not being happy being there at the races. Yeah, like I was fulfilled, but I wasn't like happy. So I just like knew something was wrong, something was off, and ultimately when we got back, and he was like, No, you're you guys are kicked out, essentially evicted. I was like, Alright, yeah, this this is just the last sign, like I can't be homeless. Like I'm done racing, like we gotta figure out what the fuck's next for us.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

So it wasn't it wasn't like a dark depression, it was like, alright, that chapter's closed, like let's figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:20

Um talking about you being in the stands and you're just like, this is where I wanted to be, but like it's not it doesn't it's not feeling how it should.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Um and you're barely it's a grief, it's like an active grief, like wow nothing's dead. Like you're you're grieving something that you're currently like doing. Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

Yeah. Um yeah, that's a great way to put it. There was a time like 2021, 2022, I was doing a lot of stuff for Reddit. A lot of stuff, and really good money for what we were doing, like not like fat paychecks, but like enough to be for like my wife and I to be comfortable and like get through life without stressing out. And uh I was just really miserable while I'm doing this because I'm like kind of similarly, it's like I worked like my whole career was like I want to do stuff for Red Bull, like that was like the pinnacle for me in action sports, is like Red Bull and now I'm here and I'm doing all these different things for them and there's a nice paycheck attached attached to it, but like I'm fucking miserable. Like I don't I don't like this, and I'm doing this other stuff, kind of more like Hollywood, LA based scripted narrative work, and I'm only getting paid 200 bucks, 300 bucks a day for two or three days, or I'm even doing it for free and I'm ten times happier doing that than I am with this like big paycheck with this big client, but but it is like so unfulfilling, and it was a very like confusing thing. And then when I kind of like all my like kind of moto stuff ran its course, and I really went all in on the LA stuff, and it was a lot more fulfilling, and then obviously everything just fucking imploded about a year and a half down the road, anyways. And then it was kind of the same thing, or I like for you where it's like well, I have fifteen hundred dollars in the bank account, we now have no place to live. Like, yeah, we're not we're not going to Atlanta to go race dirt bikes. Like when all my shit came to an end, I was negative several thousand dollars in my bank account in the week of Christmas with a four-month-old little girl, and I'm like, Okay, we're not doing this anymore. Like, Traderjoe's.com careers tab, here I come. And like, I didn't even really have like a chance to I guess grieve or like feel anything because it was just like 100% pivot and we're just gonna figure this out as we go. So all that shit is like very, very relatable.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Yeah, and then like so I were was was working at I was already working like part-time in the warehouse at seven um leading up to that 2021 season. Um so yeah, I just called Dennis at seven. I was like, yo, like I'm done. Like, you got a full-time spot for me in the warehouse, like I need to work more, I got any more hours, I got a lot more rent to pay now. Um but ultimately like I was able to you know get an office and move over to the marketing and and run the athlete support um fairly quick. So like things things worked out there, but yeah, still the same thing. Like, once I was kind of settled in that role and like had paycheck, rent was paid, then I started like the wheels started turning on like processing the whole switch, essentially. Yeah, it's like okay, I'm good here, like I'm good at my job, but it's like I have people I'm I'm printing jerseys for people I used to beat like a month ago, and they're coming in and I'm handing them their gear for them to go race this weekend, and I'm going back to sit at my desk. Like it was a hard thing to process, and I was just like, why am I feeling the ways I'm feeling? Like, I don't want to be out there racing, yet still giving this guy his gear to go race makes me feel a certain type of way. Yeah, I don't like it. So, like, what's going on here? Yeah, and then ultimately that's when I was like, okay, like this isn't the spot for me as much, as nice as it is, as much as I love the people here, like this isn't doing enough for my future, I guess, here. Yeah, um, or at least that's the as what I could break it down to at the time. Yeah. Um, and that's why I moved back home, worked for my dad's business because there was an opportunity to take it over and make a good living, and then just throughout that two years of working there, just still trying to process like why do I have these feelings of stepping away from racing? Yeah. And it was uh like you said, it was just the feeling of being rewarded, and yeah, it's it's a long process to understand like that transition when you work your whole life to reach a mountaintop and you get there and the view is dog shit. It's a hard thing to grapple with.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:52

I uh I had a couple co-workers that know a decent chunk of kind of the last two plus years. Um a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago, we were on our lunch break together and um I don't know how it got brought up, but it got they were like asking if I would ever like shoot something again. And I was like, I don't think so, at least not right now. Like I'm I sold all my stuff like six months after I stepped away, and um even now like I don't have a desire to touch a camera or go do anything in that world, and I've had opportunities to go back and I've turned them down. And they were like, and I understood where it was coming from, but it was like I remember they they said like don't let your anger and your like the bitterness and the hatred for what happened like get in the way of your passion um and ruin that for you. Like go spend go go spend one day and just go shoot something fun for yourself. And I had and I don't think they understood because it's like they weren't in my shoes and it's hard to relate if you've never gone through something like that. Like I I understand it, but but the passion is not even there anymore. Like I worked for 16 years to accomplish a goal, and you put so much effort into that, like you sacrifice relationships and and holidays and anniversaries, and I mean I was pretty much gone for the first four months of Isla's life on a project. Um and then it's like you look back with a perspective and you're like, what was it all for? Like I don't totally know, and that is a really shitty feeling. Um and so I like try to explain that to him, and I don't I I don't think they fully grasped the like maybe it will come back, but like I gave so much and I'm just like no, I gave so much and I felt like I didn't how I was treated was just a colossal slap in the face, you know, and I don't I don't need to to go through that again.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

Yeah, that's I'm I'm lucky that if like my version of the moto industry is just like the nature of the sport.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

Because I was you know, the dirt bike it doesn't I control the dirt bike to whereas like working in the business, there's a lot of moving parts and you can get burnt in a thousand ways. Like ultimately, like me as athlete just perform and like the sport's gonna take care of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

So like I don't have I don't have a ton of like animosity or like negative feelings towards the sport, like I can still watch the races and enjoy it. Like the only thing is like there's not a lot of opportunities for guys that are trying to get to that level, especially when they're signing like kids that are 12 years old to professional contracts. Like that's kind of annoying. But it's like if I was better, then I would have got a ride. Like it's pretty simple. But like for me, when when somebody asks, like, hey, let's go ride, and like you were saying, it's like no, I the passion's not even there. So like I don't even wouldn't even enjoy it if I did. I'm not like mad or angry or scared, it's just like I literally don't want to. Yeah, and for me, it's like it's so hard not to sound like egotistical or like something to somebody that like genuinely like really enjoys just like going out on the weekend and riding, which I understand. Like I lived my whole childhood like that, and it was the best childhood ever. Like, it's a very, very fun thing to do. Yeah, but for me, it's like dude, I liked hitting super cross whoops and supercross triples and throwing big whips. The track you're gonna go ride doesn't offer that in the slightest. So, like what you're about to have fun doing, I find boring as fuck. Like, let alone like in my passion about going and doing that. So it's it's a tough conversation to have. It's like not like they um people almost feel bad for me. It's like, damn, like, you know, right? Like, you're scared to get hurt. I'm like, I'm like, no, I just don't want to do it. Yeah, like I'm gonna go golf, dude. Like, I'm getting better at golf. It's that's sick. Like, I used to suck ass, and now I'm pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:38

Yeah.

unknown 1:19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

No, it totally is.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

If I go to the track, I'm only gonna get prove to myself how much worse I am than I used to be. Like, yeah, you only want to go back. How the hell is that fun?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:51

Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. I like yeah, I have all have people that ask, do you miss it? And I'm like, no, and like, like, how do you like I've had people ask, how do you just go from like doing what you did and now you you work at a Trader Joe's, you work at a grocery store. And I'm like, I I love it. Like, like I'm gonna take away the fact that I get a paycheck every two weeks. I have health insurance and the retirement plan, and I accrue paid time off. And when I punch out, I punch out. No one's no one's reaching out to me asking me for hey, we decided to change the color of the logo uh at the last minute. We need you to swap it out and update it right now. We need it to go live in 20 minutes and it's fucking one o'clock in the morning. Like those things happened. And like I don't have that anymore. But like outside of that, like I work with really cool people. I have a rad leadership team. And like I can take like we do everything at Trader Joe's, so I don't think people realize that too. Like, we unload the trucks, we bring all the pallets in the onto the floor, we break everything down, we scan in everything, like we do every single thing, and we move our we rotate every hour so we're always doing something different. Like we do everything. There's no overnight crew that comes in, like we it's us. Um you learn a lot, and there's a lot of like for me. I can take what creativity I guess I had from being behind a camera, and I can apply it to like working on a section and like how we place a product and like working with like the colors of the packaging and how you break it up and like how you make it more visually appealing for the customer. There's all these like things that there's like creative opportunity there that I can take and apply to this job, and it's and it's low stress. Like I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

No, it's it's pretty crazy how applicable like skills and talents and like eye for certain things are just like you're able to apply it to anything. Like, like your experience in film industry does help you working at Trader Joe's. It does. Like it does 100% does like it's something I've over the last few years like had to like learn and like convince myself, but it's it's very true. Like I've applied for hundreds, hundreds of jobs that I feel I would enjoy at companies I would like, but like my resume of not having a four-year degree and not having a real job until I was 23 years old, like doesn't pass HR very easily. Like, if it's getting screened by HR, I am getting thrown in a trash can. But it's like I've had to like and it's been very tough to deal with because it's like I want a good job that I enjoy doing that is good, and I have the talent and work ethic to be successful there, but I not get any work, but I've had to convince myself like no, like my perspective on the life I've lived is very valuable in a unique perspective that not many people have. Yeah, um and it's you have to like continue to like reinforce that. Yeah, because if you don't have the a normal same path as everybody, you feel like it's the wrong one.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:32

Yeah, that was like applying at Trader Joe's, I was scared because I'm like building out this resume to attach to the application because it's all done online, and I'm like 16 years of self-employment as a cinematographer. Like they're gonna be like, What? And they kinda I think it was that because I think I applied at six doors and only uh one of them called me back, and I had an interview, went well, and then they didn't hire me, and I was like, Whoa, this is not good. And then I applied it like three more that same day, and then only one called me back, and that was the one that hired me, and it worked out. And I remember the store captain that hired me. Um he was like, he's like, I'm gonna take a chance because I I I think you got something that would be really valuable to have here. I'm just concerned that in three to six months, like this might not be enough for you because I see your resume, he's like, I'm familiar with the dirt bikes, I know who Joy Lee is and whatnot. Like, I'm just worried that you'll get bored and you'll want to get back on an airplane and you know go back to you know filming dirt bikes. And I was like, no, like I I had to explain to him, like I did it for so long, like I'm okay, like I'm ready for the next chapter, and like I want this to be my career, and like etc. etc. And he was like, Alright. And obviously, you know, two plus years later, I'm still there and loving it. Um but yeah, it was the same thing. I was like, this resume is not gonna go very well for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:11

Yeah, that's and ultimately, like I literally just like gave up. I've I started when I was working sales at my dad's, I started just messing around like with used golf clubs and my own golf clubs, and like how to make them cooler. Like a life growing up with a life in action sports, like it's very easy for us to see like creativity, self-expression, and like branding in in the world of like action sports. So I was like kind of groomed to to think that way, I guess. Just being raised in skate, skateboarding, BMXing, moto, like that was normal to me, like the business side of like the brands I was around. Like that's a it was normal to me. So when I you know got my first job at 23 years old at seven, like the employees there were amazing, the brand was sick, but it was like it was still so normal to me on how things operated, and like from a brand and design perspective, that I didn't didn't think it was like rare. Yeah, you know, like uh I I thought you know, kind of all brands and companies were like seven, and it's like I remember my buddy Adam that that worked there, he's like would never could never get over. He's like, This is your first job, like, and it's here. And I was like, Yeah, like it's fine. I don't know, like I got I was really lucky, like very, very privileged, but never really like understood what he meant by that. Because like he he would tell me like he drove valet, he worked at grocery store, like he the bagger, like doing all these like kind of you know jobs that you do before you go to college and get your degree and go get the good job, whatever that is. And I was like, Yeah, just talk to dentists, he hired me, and now I'm here. And it wasn't until like I moved home and was working at my dad's very like industrial kind of blue-collar world, and I was like, oh, like this normal world stuff operates like so much differently than like the world I'm used to. Like, yeah, nobody cares about how things like look or work, it's just like do your shit, go home. Like the uh it's just it was nothing was like fulfilling about it, like it didn't scratch any itch of like the creativity or not even creativity, just like passion into what you're doing, essentially. Like in those action sports industries, like we're all huge fans, like, so you want to do good work regardless. Of like what you're getting paid, like you said with the jobs in LA, like you were passionate about it, so you wanted to do a good job. Like getting paid matter. So, like working there with all the other employees, I saw that and I was like, Oh, nobody cared, nobody wants to be here, they're just here. And I was like, I don't want to be here either because I don't want to be around this energy.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:22

And so that's I started like coming into that. I was like, I don't have a good resume to go get a good cool job, so like this is my only option to make a good living is to make this work. And then I started seeing that, and I was like, no, like I have a unique perspective, like, regardless of what my resume says, like, I know like my perspective could be applied to anything. Yeah, yeah, and so that's when I like was getting really, really into golf, and I was like, everything in golf is much like this business, to where people love to play golf, but like the branding and the equipment, especially, nobody approaches it from that like action sports lifestyle perspective to where there's actual passion into like the presentation of the equipment, and yeah, you have golf club designers that make the clubs look good, but like from the the consumer perspective, everybody's going to the same golf galaxy or dick sporting and buying the same equipment and then playing the same equipment. Like growing up in the action sports world, me and my buddies are skateboarding. None of us ever skated the same skateboard. Like, nobody on the line at Supercross is wearing the same custom painted helmet. Like, you know, you don't you don't get a tagger and ask for the same helmet somebody else just got made. Like it was like very foreign to me, like the way people approached it. And I saw that, and I was trying to bring this perspective to all these golf brands and applying to all these different marketing positions, and nobody cared to give me a call back. And I finally had one opportunity with the company, the podcast I was uh assistant editor for, and so I quit the sales job at my dad's business and was preparing to move down back down to Southern California to work as the marketing coordinator for this podcast and brand and you know lifestyle creators they are, and they lost funding, and I lost the job and was now just quit my dad's job two months prior and moved in with my in-laws to get ready to move down to Southern California and now had nothing. And I was like, Well, I've already seen like it is possible for me to get a job in this industry and apply my perspective. Like, so I'm not giving up on that. I'm not going back to work on my dad's because I know that that's a dead end. I'm gonna be miserable and depressed for the rest of my life. Yeah, and so that was the that was 438 days ago, and I've managed to stay afloat as self-employed, um, but just continue to convince myself that like my unique percep perspective can be appreciated when involved in this too.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:30

Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:33

That's your choice? Yeah. Yeah, is the cookies? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I oh, I know. I see the cookies in there. Yeah. Um man. Um so what are you what's the I guess the role now for you within golf? Because I I know you are you still like doing the stuff with the clubs, like restoring uh clubs?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:48

Yeah, so like when I was when I was at my dad's, I was just like restoring old clubs for fun because I had the equipment, his his business is manufacturing sandblast equipment, so it was like I had access to everything I would need to refurbish an old golf club. And at the time, like everything I was watching on TikTok was like DIY like before and after type content, and it was like super like mesmerizing. I'd sit there and I'm like, I don't why have I been watching this dude build a coffee table for fucking 10 minutes? I don't give a fuck about this coffee table, but I like it's cool watching it go from nothing to something, yeah. And so I was just you know doing uh messing with clubs as just like a creative outlet and decided to start filming the process and posting on TikTok and Instagram, and it took off and started doing really well, and then one person hit me up and was like, Hey, could you do this for mine? And I was like, sure, pay me 50 bucks. He's like, Absolutely. Sent me his club, I filmed it, he paid me 50 bucks, I posted it. Two more people, hey, can you do this for me? And it just started snowballing and snowballing to where it's like I was making decent side money, you know, having one putter a week essentially coming in, and I'd just start charging more for a better service. And to where it was like it was it was solid, but it was like I I never did it to work on the clubs and make that like money. Like I never wanted to like start a service business. Like never I got I like working with my hands, it's fun, but it's like that's not the type of like life I want to live to where it's like I'm selling my time to this person, you know. Yeah, I enjoyed make filming the videos and making that like before and after content for the Instagram and like for the like marketing side of whatever it was. Um I just like making the videos, and so did that I've done that like three years now as just like a side hobby, like no, this isn't this is like a cool fun side thing, like but it's not like it's not gonna be my job. Like, I can't I can't fathom like being self-employed, you know. But when the the funding fell through for that marketing position, and I was stuck here at my my in-laws with no job and just no turning back. I was like, well, I'm doing one putter a week, like if I do five, like I can probably still pay bills. So like let's just see what happens, and started pumping out videos, pump getting more more work in, and to where it's it's worked out. I've managed to stay afloat, um, and then finally um now had some interest in outside investment um to expand upon the brand. I've grown the following pretty big on Instagram to where there's there's customers there. I just needed to structure, focus more on the brand itself. Um, so that's kind of my idea for it is like I want to bring that action sports like culture, culture and creativity in the lifestyle into golf. Um to where I want to build a brand around that. So like so the apparel and the content is all focused on like bringing more style and creativity into the using golf as a platform for style and creativity, yeah. Um, whether that's clothes, equipment, or lifestyle, like all in that. So bridging the custom equipment with that is like there's no custom equipment without creativity, yeah, so just slowly getting away from the service business and doing more just content around that kind of thing, and like there's so many action sports stars that are playing golf now, like it's a culturally like acceptable thing to do nowadays. So trying to tell those stories from my lens essentially, yeah, is the goal, and finally have some some outside investment to where I can actually focus and dictate like what direction I want to go with it. So it was it was a long 436 days of just treading water. Um but yeah, as of as of literally today, I I finally have um a roadmap to actually act on.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:26

Okay. Fuck yeah. Well that's awesome. Um do you have any thoughts or intentions of um obviously a lot of these dirt bite guys are into golf, especially some of these top guys, they talk about it often. Do you have any like ideas or thoughts on wanting to like utilize any of those people in what you're doing, or do you want to like keep this very separate from that that world?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:56

No, 100%. I want to bridge everything, everything. Like, so yeah, the more right now we're launching like a first initial collection to just get some product out and start filming and marketing with it, um, and ultimately to like making sure the silhouettes are dialed in and don't need to change anything. Um but the big like launch um collection and campaign will be probably around this summer, and right now my kind of idea for it is to go up to uh Bannon Dunes, Oregon, which is like the best Lynx golf course in America, um, in 30 minutes away is the OHV park, the dunes right on the water. Um so I want to get some riders, a couple buddies, and maybe like you know, Cincerillo, if he's down to come ride the dunes and then go golf one of the nicest courses. Um, but filming like the campaign video there to where like we're riding the dunes, we're golfing out in the dunes, and then we're riding to the course, golfing the course. So definitely like blending those two worlds, okay, and just like keep telling myself that like my perspective is unique and worth like telling, you know, it's just bringing it to life essentially through this brand. Um, there's so many professional skateboarders that are golfers now, and it's like you there couldn't be two different sports, yet all these skaters are golfing, and it's the more you dig into the leads, and the more you realize like how similar the two are. It's all like body positioning, foot, like lining up your feet in the right position, timing, like it's you versus the for racing, it's you versus the track, for golf, it's you versus the course, for skating, it's you versus the rail. Like, there's so many like individual sports that you can dumb it down and just like connect the dots with golf. Um, so I want to get some professional skateboarders involved. Um biggest one on my list is uh Riley Hawk. I want to get him get him involved and just do a project with him. Um, but yeah, that would be the goal is to just uh blend the worlds as much as I can. I think it's a pretty unique um like lane that nobody's really capitalized on. Like lifestyle golf brands are are are already huge right now. Like there's Malbin, Metalwood, Quiet Golf Manors, like there's all these like streetwear-inspired golf brands. Um, but like Malbon specifically, the founder Stephen Malboun, like comes from like the hip-hop and snowboarding world to where everything's kind of like graffiti and like New York kind of grunge inspired.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:56

Um Metalwood is like a vintage 90s golf inspired mixed with LA fashion, and it's like all these motodes and skaters, and they're gravitating towards those brands because they're the cool ones. They they are cool. They're just the closest thing that like represents them. Um, but I really think there's a lane in the industry for something that like directly it represents them. Like this is an action sports, like golf brand. Yeah. If that doesn't make sense, but I think that's why it could work.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:33

Yeah. Uh and what's uh for people listening, how can they uh find this?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

Uh the Instagram is happy badgolf. Uh we're still working on the website um for the parallel launch. But yeah, Instagram at happy badgolf.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:50

Okay, cool. Um boy. What's wrong? A bug? Oh, I'm here. Come here. I'm sorry. Worms and bugs are not hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:07

Did I get you? Are we gonna be okay?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:34

Do you I kind of touched on it a bit, but do you miss racing at all, or is it like you're good?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:48

I get asked this a lot, and it's it's a difficult thing to it's not it's a complicated thing. It's like I don't miss there's so much I miss and there's so much I don't miss, so it's hard to like say.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:05

You know, like the thing I'll always miss is like Monday through Friday. Your only obligation is to be a better athlete.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:21

So like it's super selfish and super easy life to live. Like it's really hard being a professional athlete. You have to be very talented, very good at what you do, but like it's the easiest possible profession ever. You literally wake up and you just gotta be a better athlete. There's not there's nothing else on your plate. So it's a very, very easy lifestyle to live. However, it's a lot of hard work, but it's a very easy lifestyle. So I that's the biggest thing I'll always miss is like you're you're not fielding emails and like having to deal with different people, and like there's not all this commode like chaos around you, like everyone's catering towards you, whether it's sponsors or trainers or a mechanic, like it's you're like a princess, essentially. Yeah, you know, all you have to do is continue to be that princess. Um, so that's the biggest thing I miss. I mean, the Monday through Friday of like your only obligation is to go to the gym and be in the best health you can and go to the track and be as fast as you can, which is sick. Like, so that's the biggest thing I miss. The stress of like competing to get a paycheck to pay rent for my wife and I, like, absolutely not. I will never miss that. That is fucked.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:51

Like risking my life and lining up next to Fernandis, knowing he wants to kill me. Like, that's I will never miss that. Blitzing the perfect set of brand new supercross whoops, I will always miss that. Like, that is the sickest thing in the world. Like, I like golf now, but like I recognize like hitting a triple and throwing a knack-knack is objectively cooler than doing anything on a golf course. Like, I I completely agree with you. Like, it's like I don't miss so much of like the negative that racing brought to where it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:32

So it's it's difficult. There's some stuff I do, and which I think anybody could, you know, look back at what they did in their teenage years and be like, oh yeah, I missed that. It's it's it would be no different than that.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:46

Yeah, for sure. Um only a few more things and get this wrapped up. Um since you touched on it. And um I don't really care. Uh the payout for you guys, especially in your your position as a privateer. You're paying w a couple hundred bucks just to be allowed to go race A1, and then you make your night show and you're making I don't know what the numbers are, but I I feel like after everything's said and done, you're either like breaking even or like barely making a few bucks.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:26

Yeah, I mean for me I only I had my parents' support the first two years, and then the third year I was on my own, so I only have that one year to go off of, and I I didn't have I was kind of just like dropped on my head and needed to figure it out really quickly too, so I don't have a a good baseline of what you actually can make from outside help. But what I do know is is from that experience in 2021, and the pay the it's $500 for your license, $250 for a sign-up fee. So that first just in signups, that first entry, first race, you're $750 in the hole. So, and then mechanics wristband is $60, so you're $810 in the hole, and then you know, any other passes you might need is another $50 for wife, friend, whatever. Um, so it's easy to lead to get a thousand in the hole just on that first round. Um thankfully I didn't go into the hole that last season because I was able to raise enough money from outside sponsors. But in that, I think it was two and a half months that was the or no, it was it might have been three, because there was a pretty large break between Orlando and Daytona. Um but the races I did was Orlando, Daytona, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas. So I did two, I did five races and spent $30,000 in those five races. And was left with left with $1,500 in my bank account to go try and find a place to live. And so the payout the payout for the night show was $1,700 too.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:11

Okay. Okay. That's more than I honestly expect it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:16

Yeah. It was I think in 2019 it was like $1,200. And then they raised it by $500, I think, in 24.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:28

Or not $24, sorry, in 22.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:32

Still, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:33

Not that they raised it between 19 and 21, I think. I think might be 2020 to 21. They raised it 500 bucks.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:42

Yeah. Still though, you're for five races, it's gonna cost you 30 grand and you're but you're gonna make 1700.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:48

Yeah, that was the that was the difficult part too, is like being Southern California having to find like thankfully, Jason Anderson let me stay at his place in Orlando for the month between Orlando and Dallas, but like it wasn't one night stay at you know the best western or whatever. Like we had to be there all week, like for those residency rounds. So it's like hotel, Airbnbs, rental cars, food, yeah, like recovery. I was doing cryotherapy because you're racing Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. So yeah, it's it stacks up quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:31

Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:34

Not to mention, like, it's a hundred dollars a day to ride practice super fast track.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:39

That's true. Yep. Mm-hmm. That's a good point. Um how uh how did uh exposing my haters thing come about for you on Instagram? Because that shit wrecks me every time you do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:55

Yeah, Carnell's still running with it hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:57

It is, yeah, I see that.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:00

Um so this was probably so it was there's kind of more backstory to it. So when I stopped racing, like I was always I was never the best racer. I was never winning the races, and like I never had the factory rides or the team green rides. I was never getting free gear, I was getting 50% off. Like, so I was always like in my position I am now from like a marketing standpoint. Like I was always very I didn't really know it, but I was always conscious of like I need to be better at marketing myself because I'm not winning these races. So like I need to do something else. Like, so I was and it caused actually a lot of problems like between me and my dad when I was growing up because like I cared a lot about Instagram. Like, if I'm going to the package track, I want to get some photos and videos too to like post. I enjoyed creating the videos, I caught I enjoyed posting them, whatever, and he saw it as a distraction. But for me, like at an early age, I was like, no, I need to give these sponsors an extra reason to sponsor me because I'm not gonna get the exposure on I'm not on the cover of Racer X. Like, yeah, I need to do whatever I can to look the best for these people. Um so when I I would always cared about like trying to get as many followers because I knew the more followers I had, the more opportunity I would have to continue racing and get better sponsors and better opportunities. So when I stopped racing, I also not only stopped racing, but I lost like that whole pro like routine of like how I approached social media and marketing myself. Like it didn't matter anymore. I was just working at a desk, I could be whoever the fuck I wanted online. Like so I started posting other stuff and posting golf, but like every time I posted something like that, I would lose an influx of followers. So it was like I just ended up stop posting. So I was like, I don't I work really hard to get the little followers I do have. Like, I don't want them to just like it sucks seeing this number just drop. And it was also like further reinforcing, like, oh yeah, you're not a supercross racer anymore, you're just a fucking boring dude working at a desk. And it's like I didn't feel good, like I enjoyed being able to tell people, like, yeah, I race on TV. Yeah, and to watch the followers go, it's like that fucking hurts. And so throughout like the last three, four years, like if I rode, like I would like make sure to go get some content for that. So I had something to post. But like if I was golfing or if I was, you know, me and my wife were doing something, I was like, no, like they don't want to see that, like, I'm not gonna post that. And it wasn't until like six months ago to where I was like, okay, like none of these companies want to hire me. The my only option is like to create my own company, my own business, my own brand. And if I'm gonna do that, I need to a hundred percent like lean in to my story and my path to getting here, and my path to getting here was I race supercross and now I golf. So I was like, fuck it, let's see what happens. So I just fully embraced that and start posting it on social media. And the first video I posted, I tried to make it a little extra clickbaity, like as everybody does on social media. So I posted a video of me, a few videos of me racing supercross and said I traded this for this, and then picked videos of me golfing, and instantly like went viral. I think 200-500,000 views, not dollars, 200-500,000 views, comments were just insane of just people talking shit and hating, like loser, like why would you quit? Like, what like gay, like way up way too many gay comments. Like, probably at least 500 of them. But like there were all these negative comments, and I'm like, see, this is why I haven't posted this shit. Like, what the heck? I was like, it's getting views, but like this is why I haven't posted this shit. And I started clicking on these pages that were coming, it's like quad riders from Ohio. Yeah writing in fucking flip-flops, and I'm like, I don't like these are the people I was worried about, like impressing. I was like, what the hell? Okay, this perfect. Like these are the if I'm getting hate, these are the people that are hating, like I don't care. Like they're I'm not trying to impress them anymore. I'm trying to build a golf brand, so like they can fuck off. I don't give a fuck. And there's it kept getting traction, kept getting traction, and then people started actually like supporting it. And I was like, hold on, like there's people that are actually liking it too. And I mean the biggest example is Jet Lawrence commented on it, and it was like, literally my dream. So on this in my first uh post I decided to post, you have hundreds of people talking shit that look up to Jet Lawrence, and Jet Lawrence is in the same comment section saying, Literally my dream. So it was just like a perfect like reminder for myself that like these people hating don't matter, like their opinions mean nothing. But the people that actually like do have ground to stand on to either talk shit or like just any validity, they're fucking with it. So like keep going. So I posted more and more of like similar stuff, and like the hate still came in, and I was like, I'm like, need to show people like you all like I'm sure have stuff that like you don't want to post or you're embarrassed about or whatever. Like the people you're worried about impressing are literally bottom of the barrel, like don't matter, yeah. Like, so there's literally no downside to posting whatever the fuck you want, and it was like it took me so long to like to get to that point. I was like, what I need to post something that like shows how silly this is to care about what these people say, yeah. So I just posted the first exposing my haters with their comments and their photos, and uh yeah, it blew up. And now Carnell was like Carnel's on like episode 12.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:35

Dude, it's so good. The first time I saw that, I was like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:39

It was like I saw that and I was like, man, that's some that's some punk, that's a punk rock move right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:44

It was so difficult it was difficult though, because like there's so much that I'm like not embarrassed, but like ashamed, disappointed of like stuff that I didn't accomplish. I never made a main. Like there's a lot of people that I would consider myself like better on a dirt bike than that have raced main events. And I know but they've raced main events. I never have. Like you're you're better than me. Like go look up the results. You're way better than me. So like there's a lot of stuff that I'm like disappointed in, but then I have to remind myself, like my only like childhood goal was like to make it to the Redos. Like I got fifth at the Redas. I never thought I like had the talent or skill to even like make it to a supercross and race on these in these stadiums, like especially after like the ace the leg and ACL. Like, I didn't even know if I'd be able to let the clutch out. So I I've been able to like put that aside and like be proud of what I actually like did do.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:44

Um, so yeah, posting those hater things and like bragging about never making a main is difficult, but it's like it was it's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:53

Yeah, no, dude, it's it's so good. I love it. Um let me grab I'm gonna grab my phone real quick. Um we'll knock out a few questions that people asked through Instagram. Exciting. Nothing too wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:17

I know my buddy Alton probably said some dumb shit about being faster than me. I know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:23

Okay, let's see. Let's see if I can find um uh yeah, let's start with Alton. Although there's one that for that one. Uh yeah, all no, Alton's wasn't wasn't bad. He just wants he said uh James Stewart versus Ricky Carmichael. Question mark.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:45

Oh, that this is this is the goat talk. I I'd be interested to get your your opinion on this too. So I have I have a pretty uh diplomatic answer.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:01

What's your diplomatic answer?

SPEAKER_01 1:59:03

I think I think taking the greatest of all time title away from Ricky is ridiculous. But I do think James is better. So I think like the the general consensus is Ricky's the greatest of all time and James is the fastest of all time. And I think that's the only logical answer. Like you can't you can't ignore the championships of Ricky to to call somebody else the greatest of all time.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:31

Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, like statistically Ricky has the numbers, but from uh from uh the eye test, it's undeniable. I test it's absolutely James. I mean, James did stuff on a motorcycle that I like jet's probably the closest thing we have to that, in my opinion. Like Ricky wasn't pretty when he was doing it ever. I don't think I ever watched a single race of Ricky Carmichaels and was like, that dude's fucking sick. Like he rides a motorcycle, cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:03

Like I couldn't agree more, and I can't believe I've never heard that opinion. Yeah, I don't think I've ever either. In person, like, yeah, the the the m speed, the mile per hour through the whoops at Wash Ugal is crazy impressive. Yeah, but you've never watched Ricky Carmichael and been like, wow, that was perfect.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:23

No, never. I mean, I remember, so I'm 39. I remember Ricky turn pro in '96, race still city, and I remember we went going to the Glen Helen National in 1997, like watching Ricky's first rookie year, like the kid was fast. But like, put him against any of the guys he raced, like Kata, James, uh, Chad, uh, who else is in there? I'm no, I'm forgetting someone. Um all those guys from like a uh a technical eye test standpoint, blow Ricky out of the water. I feel like Ricky would probably admit that though.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:06

Like he'd probably say he couldn't have good form because he's too short.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:12

I'm sure that's has something to do with it, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:18

Getting hit in your ass while you're going through what doesn't help.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:22

Yeah. I can't believe I forgot McGrath. Oh my god, how foolish.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:27

Um, exactly. McGrath is just like and like once again, you'd say he's the goat if he was better at outdoors, but he's the king of Supercross. Like Supercross.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:38

No, but this all originated on Alton's bachelor party trip. There was heavy drinking and some heavy debate on this, and then some heavy miscommunication. Oh no. Oh no. So it turned into the whole theme of the whole weekend of James Stewart versus Ricky Carr.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:01

I mean, I and if you look, if you look on paper, I feel like James was supposed to have the same numbers as Ricky did on paper. That's how it should have was supposed to go.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:13

But obviously that's looking at like being so removed now and how drawn out like James's exit from racing was.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:24

There was never like a definitive day where the whole sport like mourned his like absence, I feel like. But like I recently I went back and looked at like the rate, his like what his last races were and like the results he was getting. And the fact that it just ended one day is so fucking depressing.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:45

Like it was so drawn out, we don't really think of it like it was just like, oh yeah, he he just retired. It's like, no, it was like he could have won for so many more years.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:57

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:58

And it's hard to like look at it like that because you you don't have like the titles to remember. Like, oh yeah, he like Villapoto won three in it, three in a row. You remember that and was like, oh yeah, that was an exclamation mark on a career. So James doesn't have those, so you look back and you're like, oh yeah, he used to race. But like looking at that like 2012 to 2016, like what happened to him, like through moving teams, the injuries, the the the ban for that or all like yeah, all of that is so yeah, just unfortunate as like a whole sport. We were robbed of like a generation of him, essentially. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:40

Yeah, yeah. No, I yeah. Ricky has the numbers, obviously, he has the stats, but like you said, eye test, it's it's James. I mean, there's just like James, what was that? Oh three Buddha's Creek, that moto where the Bubba Scrub appeared. He went from last to first, and there's some rides on that 125 in Vegas, supercross. He's doing stuff that nobody else can do.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:11

Yeah, you gotta play that for a social club.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:14

Yeah, that was insane, dude. Like I remember I even remember like those early like oh one, oh two, oh three, like videos popping up on Trans World of James out at Elsinore writing like the vet track and just like what the fuck? Like just insane.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:37

Yeah, the video of him on uh right, I think it was like before he even had graphics on the Yosh Suzuki at Comp Edge doing that like step on that. He turned a table and two singles into a step on, step off.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:50

Yeah. So sick. It's yeah. Yeah. I like one of my favorite still to this day, like favorite races was 98 Unadilla Moto 1, Carmichael versus Robbie Raynard, and Carmichael is leading. And I think Robbie had like a he was like 10th, 11th, 12th. Fucking just on a different track. Comes through the pack, catches Ricky, drops him, drops him, and it's just gone, wins the moto. And it's just like it's I still I think that's one of my like that's etched in my memory because Robbie was not on the same Unadillo that Ricky was, and he just fucking made him look like a fool. And ra Robbie was another guy, like he was so stylish, like looked like he wasn't trying, just so many injuries. But I yeah, that's I think it's on YouTube. I highly recommend it. And Robbie, I don't know what happened to Moto2. You wanna put what um you wanna put this on? Okay, okay. We're gonna change it to uh an else address. Okay Bear with me. Lucky we have I mean you see we're friends on Instagram, so you see we're always there. It's like the one expenditure because we have passes, like the one like we indulge on.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:50

No, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:51

Um Heggs H E W G S S your else address.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:10

When am I done? I'm almost done.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:14

Um is there anything in Moto that crossed over to golf, mindset or physical?

SPEAKER_01 2:08:23

Literally everything. Everything that I used that I possessed in Moto was transferable to golf. And like from mental to just you versus yourself, like that's the that's by far the biggest thing. Like you're a hundred percent held accountable for your performance on both. And that like that's what I love about it. That's what I loved about racing. I realized like I was never addicted to adrenaline, I was addicted to seeing how good I could be at something physical, and it was like I as a kid like worshipped Travis Pastrana, Jeremy McGrath, James Stewart. Like, that's what I thought was the coolest thing ever. So I was like, if I can use my passion for like being as good as I can at something physical and it being the thing I think is the most cool, like that's how why and how I came to race supercross. It wasn't like I was looking for the most dangerous and like fun thing to do, it was just like I liked watching dirt bikes racing, and I liked to go about life a certain way, so it's like that's the thing I applied it to.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:42

Um so when I picked up golf, it was just the same thing. Now I don't study Jet Lawrence, I study Scotty Scheffler and go try and replicate what he does best on the golf course and use my body as a vessel to be as good as it can at a certain activity. Um, so everything mental and physical has switched over, and I there's one thing that I don't get from golf that I would get from racing, and it was the ability to clear your head of any thoughts. Like you don't have the time to think about anything else when you're on a super cross track than hitting your marks and doing it perfectly. And it was always like a mental reset. Like, even as a kid, like if I was injured, my parents hated me. Like I had way too much energy, I was a nightmare to like tell what to do because I had not emptied my tank. So after the first time I would ride after being off the bike for six weeks or whatever, I was the best kid ever. It was just like everything was was good in the world again. Yeah, and so for me, I don't get that anymore. Because with golf, like you hit one shot, you got two, three minutes till you go hit the next. You got all the time in the world to like think about the mistake you made, how to fix it, but then at that point, it's a vicious cycle. You're thinking you're overthinking it, so you overcompensate, you make another mistake, you compound mistakes, all you're thinking about is mistakes. Now you're you're fucked.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:25

Whereas racing, it's like you make a mistake, like, bro, you don't have time to think about it. Like, yeah, hit your mark, hit your mark.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:31

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:31

So, like, that's the only thing golf like doesn't give me that moto did is like that ability to just clear your mind of all thoughts and just perform.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:41

Yeah. Um Jeff Simpson's photography, who uh we worked at Verb together, uh still friends now, and he helps out with the podcast from time to time. He says, he's bringing this question back. This was a this was a Freestone James Stewart amateur national quote. Question that he would ask, and he would ask at some of the Post Race press conferences at the Outdoors in 2021. It pissed some people off. Would you rather look like a potato or feel like a potato?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:17

That's tough. That question pissed off Eli Tomanak. He blocked her because of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:24

That's tough. Um God. Oh, I'm what I'm leaning toward look, but I'm trying to wonder how bad you would feel feeling like a potato.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:38

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:39

I don't do good when I don't I feel bad, man. Like that having that Epstein bar, I like had to and still do have to like be super careful. I don't like over exert myself or I'm in a hole for at least like two or three weeks. Yeah. So feeling like a potato is uh is scary to me, but I do I do like looking good.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:03

I th but I think I yeah, I you gotta look like a potato and not feel like one.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:07

Okay, okay. I'm here for it. Um, that's your bed. She just found her baby monitor. Um three things I'm gonna fire off at Chief Ask at the end I gotta go change the kid's butt. Do you see yourself as a realist, optimist, or pessimist?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:35

Oh, depends on the day. Like, yeah, I'm it's it's a war between these ears. There's there's no consistency across that board.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:46

That's fair, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:48

Um mostly optimistic, but it it turns a U-turn very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:53

Oh yeah. Um guilty pleasure. Is that a Yerba madre?

SPEAKER_01 2:14:03

Yeah, Yerba Mate, at least one a day. Okay, caffeine and a little sugar with it. Honestly, yeah. Soda is like absolutely like my big biggest guilty pleasure. I'm I try not to drink them because I get so addicted. Like I I don't have an addictive personality. I've never like nicotine, vape, all that, like I've never even like felt what it does, let alone like crave to do it again. Yeah, but soda I struggle so bad with being able to regulate how much I drink.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:37

Um, if I get in the routine of like having one with every meal, it's having one with every meal and then having one in between with me. Like it's yeah, soda it gets me bad. So I'm on like I think second or third week, I haven't had one yet, but like these these hierba mate's have like 25 grams of sugar in them, so it's awesome. But but yeah, soda is soda's my kryptonite for sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:00

Yeah, that's fair. I can yeah, I can relate to that. Um if you could have uh dinner with three people dead or alive, who are they gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 2:15:20

Going Mac Miller. Okay and then from there. I feel like it's gotta be an oh pastrana. Yeah, me and my brother, Mac Miller, and Pastrana. Okay. I don't know how Pastrana's gonna and Mac Miller would do together, but that'd be fun to see.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:46

We're gonna find out.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:47

It'd probably be good.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:48

Yeah, I think yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:49

Yeah, Pastrana should have been probably first on that list, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:54

Um sweet, dude. Anything else you want to hit on that we didn't go over at all?

SPEAKER_01 2:15:58

Or no, I think that's about it. We'll have to we'll have to do this soon without it recording and yeah, honestly, we really should.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:09

Yeah, I know like obviously we talk on Instagram and send each other name memes of our favorite dirt bike racer. Um but yeah, we really should actually catch up.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:22

Absolutely. So no, I I appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:26

Yeah, no, I know we've talked about this pretty much since I started, and I was like, fuck it, we're gonna start doing like remote ones to make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:33

Yeah, I wish we were able to do it in person, but this is definitely definitely better than just it not never happening.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:40

Yeah, exactly. So shweetude. I'm gonna uh hit stop.