50. Ryan Fudger - Stills Photographer/OUR BMX

Hailing from San Diego, CA, Ryan Fudger is a professional stills photographer, owner/founder of OUR BMX, and podcast host of UNCLICKED. Prior to starting OUR BMX and UNCLICKED, Fudger spent 18-years as the associate editor and then managing editor of the iconic TransWorld RIDE BMX magazine title.

In today's episode, Fudger dives into his early years in San Diego, CA; growing up with his best friend and BMX legend, Gary Young, how BMX entered his life, picking up a camera, the opportunity to join RIDE, living out of his car, the toll this line of work takes on your personal relationships, the day RIDE was shut down, how OUR BMX came to fruition, and so much more.

Beyond stoked to hit 50 episodes and also have episode 50 be with such an important individual within the world of BMX, Ryan Fudger. I hope all enjoy. Thank you, Fudger, for making the time to come on the podcast and share your journey! 

Follow OUR BMX on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bmx

Follow UNLICKED on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unclickedpodcast

Visit OUR BMX's Web site: https://ourbmx.com

Follow Ryan Fudger on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fyanrudger

Follow The Failed Experiment on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thefailedexperiment/

Support the the Failed Experiment: https://account.venmo.com/u/kylecowling

Follow Kyle Cowling on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kylecowling/

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Holy cow, we have done it. Fifty frickin' episodes of this thing. Uh kinda wild. Never really had any goal with this thing. As I've always said, it's just a DIY passion project. Uh just record episodes as I go and whatever happens happens. Uh so it's pretty cool. To now have uh episode 50 released. Uh even though this was recorded uh what is this, August? This was recorded three months ago. Um anyone that's kinda new to the podcast at all, I usually record a bunch of episodes uh back to back to back, so I have around two to three months worth of consistent episodes ready to go before I release anything. So this whole batch, I think I've recorded like I don't know, there's a lot, I think. Yeah, a lot. Uh so episode 50 with Mr. Ryan Fudger was recorded three months three months ago, been sitting on it, and uh I released all these in order in which they were recorded. Uh and Fudger happened to be episode 50, and coincidentally, uh the second episode in a row that is focused on BMX. Episode 49 last week was with uh Kelly Bolton, who I think I said in the intro, it blows my mind that it took 49 episodes to have someone from the BMX industry on. Um, so it was super rad to have Kelly on and share his story, and then to back that up just purely how the schedules worked out with Fudger. Uh we had been trying actually for a couple months to make it happen, and just between schedules, uh he's a very busy guy with uh our BMX, and then he's got a family of his own, myself working full-time, wife, child, whole thing. So took a few tries to get this on the books, but we made it happen, and it worked out. Episode 50, Mr. Ryan Fudger. So thank you, Ryan, for taking the time to come up from San Diego to my neck of the woods to sit down and have a chat. And as always, co-host Violet making multiple appearances, so just fair warning. Um, but yeah, this was super rad. I met Ryan in 2008, early 2008. Uh I was like 21 years old and had just gotten hired by Transworld Motocross magazine as the associate editor, but was very, very well aware of Ride and Fudger and Jeff Z, and at the time, uh I think it was Fat Tony that was running the website, and then obviously Keith, who was the editor-in-chief at that time. And what they were doing was not lost on me because while Moto was my thing, I also grew grew up riding BMX and going to Sheephills and Hidden Valley and the Slater, aka The Wetlands, uh in the 90s and early 2000s, so got to see a lot of cool shit during that time period with a lot of uh locals like Sean Butler and Josh Tricker and Emma Kroom and Bar Spinner and all those guys. And then went to school with Mike Hucker Clark, who I really need to try to get on the podcast. Um, because we were really close and he was a nutbag, and definitely helped progress my riding, but then I also realized that I'm not like him. He's built differently. Um but yeah, met Ryan when I got hired at Trans World Moto. Uh we were in the Tustin office sharing the office with Ride BMX and then at the time Trans World Quad. Um, but I just remember being so fascinated by the Ride guys and Jeff Z and Fudger. Um anytime they were getting ready to go to print, I would always kind of sneak over to their side of the office and look at all their proofs and oh man, the photography was just always so, so gorgeous, and it was always so inspiring for me as a photographer, and being on the Moto side and wanting to try and take what they were doing and bring it to Moto. Uh, easier said than done, uh to say the least. But uh yeah, those guys were very, very inspiring for uh myself, so it was very cool to be able to share the office with them and as someone that grew up uh flipping the pages of both Trout's World Moto and Ride BMX. Um it was just so rad. Uh but yeah, we get uh we get in all kinds of stuff as usual. Um Fudger gets into living with Mr. Gary Young and growing up together and being best friends and um kind of how BMX came to be for him, what it meant to him as this kind of escape and this thing that he had that no one else really knew about. Um how uh he started down the path of photography and um kind of documenting the local scene down in San Diego at that time, and then the opportunity at Ride BMX and the email he got from Mark Losey and just his time at Ride and what it was like, and it is so damn cool. Um he also gets into the toll that relationships take uh when you're in this type of work, because this line of work is for better or worse, all consuming and can and will affect your personal relationships. Um dives into kind of modern BMX and kinda not totally able to relate to what modern BMX is, especially for s I mean, even me, it's I'm so like I'm still stuck in the 90s of just kind of simple tricks and not this video game thing, which is really gnarly, but for me to I like to throw on like my favorite video of all time was uh Bar Spinner's Soil, and I think that came out in like 94, 95. I could I it's on YouTube and I still watch it to this day, and it's just so timeless. Um talks about his time at Ride and literally sleeping in his car. Um he gets into the day that Ride BMX was actually shut down and being in the Oceanside office, being pulled into a meeting with him and Don Maeda, who was editor-in-chief at Transworld Moto, and losing his job. The entire magazine, Riot and Moto being shut down. Um, and then how our BMX came to be and this the ebbs and flows of trying to pick up the pieces and start something brand new, and kind of what his goals are with that. And I know that this this was recorded three months ago, and since we recorded this, I know Fudger did uh unclicked episode talking about Ride BMX is now back. Um so just letting you guys know if you're listening to this, this was recorded before Ride was like officially back in whatever capacity it is now. Um so just fair warning. All the BMX fans in here probably have already listened to the unclicked episode. So if this part is redundant, just know that's because it was recorded three and a half months ago. So it was before it was like official that Ryan was back, again in whatever capacity, but don't know. Um so yeah, lot here, super stoked. Thank you, Ryan, for coming on. Um, this was a lot of fun. Stoked we can make it happen, stoked to have two episodes back to back that are BMX focused. Um would love to have more uh individuals on from the BMX uh industry. So you guys know anyone that thinks would be interesting, uh let's do it. I would be super stoked to do so. Um let's see. Wish list of guests, the usual suspects, uh Jenny Taft, Adam Censorillo, Justin Brayton, uh Buddy Nielsen, Molly Carlson, Max Anstey, David Can David Kennedy, Katie Maloney, Alex McKenna, Brandon Blaine from Pit Plague Vendor, uh was actually in his DMs and we were talking, and he was down or is down, and then I sent him dates and I it's been on on red since then. So if anyone can help me get him to check his DMs again, that would be huge because he would be so cool. So help. Uh and then again, anyone from the BMX industry that you guys think would be cool, let me know. I think it would be rad to have more on. Um yep. If you haven't already, Instagram at underscore the failed experiments for follow reels, photos, all that stuff. Uh if you want to support for some reason, you can donate at Kyle Cowling a couple bucks, or subscribe and get episodes five days before they release for three bucks a month. It's all DIY, no sponsors, so if that floats your boat for some reason, you can go about it that way, or Apple and or Spotify, subscribe, rate five stars, please. Cool. Leave a nice review. That helps bump this thing into the algorithm world uh to get it in front of more people, because um that's all we got. So uh yeah, alright, I think that's everything. Hope everyone enjoys episode 51. Still's photographer, former managing editor of Trans World Ride BMX, and now owner, founder of our BMX, Mr. Ryan Fudger. Everyone enjoy and let's do it.

SPEAKER_11 10:05

It's pretty pretty wild.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

It's been yeah, it's been fun. Like that was I wanted to start this. I was telling this maybe to Kelly last time, but I wanted to start this like in 2022 or 2023. And at the time I was doing work with Vermoto, and I had pitched them an idea, and it just kinda kept getting like they're into it, but they wanted to have it be like this.

SPEAKER_11 10:28

I think they're like, they were making it too big, so it like couldn't start.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah, that's kind of how it felt, and it just kind of kept getting pushed back because we were doing other stuff, and then all that came to an end for me, and I was like, I remember sitting at home on the couch playing GTA 5 online, and just texting my wife, and I was like, I'm gonna do the podcast, and here's what I'm gonna do. And I'm just gonna do audio only dining room and whoever the fuck I want, and that's that's it. And she was like, I love it, do it. And then you're episode 50, dude.

SPEAKER_11 10:59

That's crazy. That's crazy, it's 50 episodes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

There's been I was on a roll for a while, and then all my stuff came to an end. I got a real job. We had her like all at once, and then the podcast just kind of like I wasn't like I was like, how do I do this?

SPEAKER_11 11:15

That's life, like in the sense of everybody has a list of things, and you know, you have your wife, you have you, you have money, you have all this stuff, and the podcast is not level that high up. So it makes sense, it makes sense. I I I understand there is real stuff with that.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Yeah, so it just kind of uh yeah, got put to the back burner, and I would do a few episodes like sporadically, and then this year a friend of mine, uh Nick Evenue, he was like, dude, there's people he was at the San Diego Supercross, and he was like, dude, there's people asking about the podcast and asking about you, and like if you're still gonna do it because they really enjoyed it, and I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_11 11:59

So that was kind of like my that unsolicited validation. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

So it's like, all right, I'm gonna like figure out how to carve out time and like do this again. And it's been really fun. Like it's always been a cathartic experience for me, but even more so now that I'm like making time for myself and I have this like kind of creative outlet to do something like this. It's been like this batch of episodes has been really cool.

SPEAKER_11 12:22

Cool, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's good. It's hard when it starts to feel like a task in a lot of ways, you know, where you're like, oh, I mean, that's I have a group message because I we do a monthly news podcast. Sometimes it just lands on hard days, you know, and and the original plan was to go, look at you, little fruit thief.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

She knows.

SPEAKER_11 12:49

What do you say? You say please?

SPEAKER_05 12:51

What do you say? What do you say?

SPEAKER_11 12:56

Oh, she's too cute, man. Um yeah, I was like, all right, I'm gonna drive up, do this podcast, go to Odyssey, drive home, kids' baseball practice if I can make it in time, and then podcast. And I'm like, no, I need to push a podcast. I literally was in the car when you pulled up, like, like sending a group message, like, hey, can we just do Sunday? Like, so, but that's later because it's a news podcast, it should come out basically on the first, okay, which is today. So it's like uh, you know, I got back from uh ironically, well, I don't know if we maybe we uh the ended up going to Deegan's compound.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_11 13:38

Yeah, so he ri he gets he's sponsored by Hyper for the BMX stuff and he built a park uh and hyper helped him out with it, and so we went and uh took a couple of pros out there and hung out with Deegan a little bit for like a day, you know, like one day, and then in the morning the next day, and then uh he had a training session or practice session at Star Racing at Yamaha, so then went there the next morning, and then ironically, Garth and Long were there shooting the 27 Yamaha bikes. So I walk in and I see Long and he and I'm like, Is that Long? You know, isn't wherever Georgia, bumble, I don't know. And and uh and Long is like he's even more confused than I am because I'm walking into his world, you know, and uh and he's like Garth, you know, like one of those, like, and yeah, it was it was a trip, and then we got a full tour of that place. It was it was eye-opening because I don't really follow Moto at all, and I knew I've heard of Hayden, but not like I didn't know he was what he is, he's been on that. Like, I looked when I got home, I looked at his Instagram and I was like, oh, he has two million followers, and oh, it's like that. I didn't realize so it was it was a little bit of a trip. Like I talked to Brian Deegan for like five minutes, and then as I was driving away, I was like, fuck, like I should have I should have asked him to sit down and like and done like a quick podcast, like a 45-minute thing or something, just talk about the BMX fighting Troy McMurray, all this stuff, and I was like, damn, dude, I really blew it. I really should have done that. But so if we go out there again, it's gonna be like first on the list and be like, hey, can maybe I can get Brian to sit down.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

That'd be cool. How was Hayden with you? He was good.

SPEAKER_11 15:34

Yeah, I mean, he um are we on right now? I'm recording it. All right, but uh it's funny because there was I film all those monster BMX events at Supercross, and we had an interaction. I didn't think about it until afterwards where I'm I'm I've on the on a skateboard with a gimbal and he like he was like, do a kickflip at one of the stops. It's like two years ago or something. Yeah, and I didn't recognize him. I don't know anything about that world, and I literally I think I was just like crabby in that mood, and I was like, Let me see her pass first, or something, because he didn't have like a badge anywhere and he was inside or something, and I just gave him like a shitty reply, yeah. And uh, and I see he like kind of looked at me and he looked at his boy, and it was like that's all it was. And then when I got there, he was like, You look familiar, yeah. And I was and he's like, Oh, you film all the so he like banked it, like it was pretty, it was pretty funny in a sense, and I was like, Oh, I think he rem and I like didn't think about it for a while, and I was like, Oh, that was the dude, and it like connected for me like two days later, but he was super nice, so yeah, like I feel like dudes like that are on such a different wavelength, you know, like that house that they're building is like fucking insane. Never even seeing a structure like that where in his private park dude is you know, he's got his entourage, but he was he was really nice and and uh and you know just a different wavelength. What how how am I gonna relate to a 20-year-old female?

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 17:08

It's not it's I always think when I interact with people that I I I don't look at I don't blame them first, I blame me in a sense where I'm like, I don't get it. You know, like if one of his boys had like jeweled pants on, and he's just like too, you know, like affliction Huntington Beach in 2005, like out of it, like, but like times times five or ten, like he was there was a lot of jewels on the kid, like and I was like, Man, I just don't get it. Like, I'm like, I don't think it looks cool, but also somebody has to, right? Like, it's just not for me. So I always like think when I'm I can't relate to somebody, it's because we're just it's like I'm part of the problem too, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Yeah, different different eras and styles, and like there's a dirt bike podcast I listened to, and they were actually talking about like style and like baggy pants or like skinny jeans, and then I just can't get into the skinny jean thing at all. And for me, I'm listening to it and I'm like, There I could never wear baggy pants. I've just been in skinny jeans since like 2003.

SPEAKER_11 18:20

Well, I think it's like you you know, your dad wore long socks, so you we wore ankle socks, so now we were or now the kids wear long socks again because dad wore long, you know, like yeah, it's just it just goes the it it's a pendulum, it goes back the other way after a bit because whatever you know, our you know every 30-year-old dude's wearing vans. So now kids are like, I don't like vans because look at all those fucking old guys wearing vans. Yeah, and that's and that's the way it swings. So it has life. I don't know. But I I mean I could hardly imagine how I would be if I was 20 years old making millions of dollars. Like I would be like a fucking total prick. So the fact that he was cool was I was especially after we had some funny interaction, whatever, a year or two ago, I was like, oh, that's you know, so that's good.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Yeah, I've never I've had very minimal time around him and not enough to like really gauge it at all. So I j my experience is just like what I see in media and his persona on TV at the races, and I'm not like the biggest fan of it.

SPEAKER_11 19:25

Yeah, I've got I don't see any of that, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

But he got he he runs his mouth. Oh yeah I mean rightfully so. But you need that.

SPEAKER_11 19:34

That's like you need the heel, you know, in a lot of ways. Like you need the bad guy to to balance things out. Like if it's motocross and BMX probably need that, you know, like they you need the guy that everybody hates because you want the other person to win, but then sometimes you fucking love the bad guy, you know? Like yeah, so it's true. And Brian was his dad. Brian knows what being the bad guy is, and they probably and it's probably a bit of a shtick in a sense.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

I do think so. Yeah, I think Brian was like a really good marketing guy. Yeah, I've heard like Pastrana talk about it when they were at the top during X Games, like Pastrana not even knowing what Brian was doing to like help both of them by like playing that like good boy versus bad boy.

SPEAKER_11 20:20

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah, Brian knew what he was doing.

SPEAKER_11 20:23

Very smart, very smart dude.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 20:25

So it was it was uh just talking to him for a few minutes. I was like kind of tripping that I was talking to him, but then everything he was saying, you know. We kind of touched on that, like how hard it is to just like how they're making sacrifices to be out there for him and that he has to be entrenched in it so much, you know. So of course, if they're doing all of that, they're making all those sacrifices, then they're going to uh be conscious about everything that he puts out as well. True. Yeah. Yeah. It's on a level.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Um so I have you listened to any of these before?

SPEAKER_11 21:03

Yeah, I uh the one I listened to, I've you know, I've been doing it for a couple years. I've listened to a few. Sometimes I go in phases with podcasts.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 21:13

But uh the last one I listened to was a while ago, but it was the Drew Ruiz one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, which was super good. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

So you kind of know the drill somewhat of how this goes, kind of.

SPEAKER_11 21:23

We talk. Yeah, it's kind of similar.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

It's the same idea to like what you do with Unclicked, which dude, I've been I've gone down the rabbit hole with those.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Because like I grew up obviously ended up going down like the dirt bike route, but like I also rode BMX, like sheep hills hidden later and went to high school with Hucker. Like him and I spent high school riding BMX together, and I watched him just go kill himself every day and like pop up and just laugh. And I'm like, dude, I don't have whatever you have, I don't have it. So I'm gonna go here on this like dirt bike thing, I guess, because I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_11 21:58

Yeah, I remember when you started at Trans World, you can't And introduced yourself and said you wrote BMX and all that stuff. So yeah, I was like, oh shit, Kelly.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

I remember I remember like we'll get into this because there's like I have some funny memories of like being at Trans World Moto and us sharing that office with you guys at Ride. And it's just yeah. Funny, funny moments like that I like you guys probably didn't know of like just 100%. I mean there was don't don't talk to them type vibes.

SPEAKER_11 22:25

Exactly, yeah, because if it's funny because Don there was a point where I was like, oh shit, Don knows who I am, you know, like he like came in and talked to me, and I was like, oh, that's crazy. That's that's hilarious. And then but uh Jeff is like kind of the I don't know, Jeff Zelensky is in his own world, and he literally didn't know anybody in the office. And there's only 20 people, yeah, and he's been there five, ten years, however long that span was. Yeah, and he's like, and I'm like, yeah, cooly. And he's like, who, which one is that? Dude, come on, man. Like, like that's like unreal that you don't know these guys at all. Like, like, but it it was it was a little Don always put out that holier than thou vibe, and like I like Don, but he you know, yeah, it's it was interesting. I don't really know him, honestly. So it's it's that's kind of the that says what it says, you know, like in no shots, but like he never took time to like get to know me, but he kind of put it out that he didn't care, so I was like, oh well, I'll just whatever, no big deal.

SPEAKER_08 23:32

And again, that's sort of like I don't care, like you know, he's a fucking busy dude. Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 23:38

Airplane conversations. Like, is he gonna have that shit over and over and over with me? But we're not gonna be friends for you know, like it's I don't blame somebody.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

So um, yeah, we'll get into some of that because it was yeah, especially for me, like coming in all like this 21-year-old kid and sharing the office with you guys, and I'm like, oh my god, like Trans World Moto and Ride were like Bibles for me. So see be up close to see what you guys were doing. I'm like, Yeah, it was a good time. Um anyways, San Diego native, right?

SPEAKER_11 24:16

Yeah, for the most part. I mean, I was born in Palm Springs, but I moved to San Diego when I was three. So yeah, but San Diego, yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Uh what was San Diego like for you growing up?

SPEAKER_11 24:26

Um, well, I grew up in Pacific Beach. So uh uh beach town, single mom, lived in apartments, welfare, you know, uh didn't grow up with means of any sorts by it. But um, you know, I I was born, you know, I was essentially grew up in San Diego on a beach. Like I still can't really complain about that. Yeah. Um, but you know, there was highs and lows to it. I started working at a dog, like a pet salon or dog salon or whatever when I was like 13 or 12, I don't know. So every day pretty much every day after school. So I always kind of just worked and had my own money just because my mom couldn't really afford to do that. So uh yeah, just worked and I think I started riding bikes around 15 because that was and that was something that uh Gary Young, I don't know, uh it depends on how many viewers you get that are probably outside the realm, but pro rider for a couple of decades at this point, you know. Um we our moms met in a hair salon when we were three and four. So we ended up actually living together. Our moms moved in together for like when we were five or something. No way. So uh effectively, brother, I'm an only child, he's an only child. So uh he's the one that got me into riding, but like our moms had like a falling out at some point, and I had to like sneak and ride bikes and go to you know, like stuff like that as a kid. We we didn't really go to school together, like didn't I think we had one year in elementary school that we were in the same school, but so but uh best friends, you know, for for you know 40 years at this point. So uh he's the one that got me into riding uh at a at a young age. So okay. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

What is so I guess would that would that be like your earliest memory of like BMX and bikes?

SPEAKER_11 26:35

Yeah, probably. Because I feel like it was in you know, a different time period. I don't think we were like, I'm gonna ride BMX. No, it was like, oh, we got a bike pedaling around, doing some jumps. Gary was always good. And so he we just started doing stuff. I there was no conscious time period where I was like, this is the first time I saw BMX. I think it may have been Gary jumping something. Okay, you know, like I didn't see Rad. I think Gary saw Rad, but I didn't see any movies or X games or anything like that. So it's a it's it kind of slow buildup into into becoming like a BMX or I don't have a conscious memory of like that first time.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Yeah. So do you remember what your first bike was?

SPEAKER_11 27:21

Nah, probably like a GT Robinson type thing or something. I think my my mom always did a good job of like getting me that one thing, but I think also um since I did have my own money at a point, you know, like I think I I graduated from the the pet salon to working at traffic school when I was like 15 or 16.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Okay. Yeah, so I would what were you doing at traffic school?

SPEAKER_11 27:46

Before the inner before the online traffic school, you would they would call up and be like, hey, I got a speaking ticket, a cheap Saturday or any day comedy traffic school, how may I help you? So that was the that was the thing that I said. Yeah, so I would sign people over traffic school, and it would be I would give them directions over the phone because there was no online maps, you know, stuff like that. Like take the 80s, exit Waring Road, you know, turn left, first right, you know, stuff like that. Uh and so I did that. Literally, I've I've only had three real jobs a pet salon, traffic school, and then I left the traffic school, or I got fired from the traffic school the same week I got hired at Rod. So after like years, though. So okay. I was already applying for ride for like a month, or the process was really long in my head, and uh in my 20-year-old head, that it was like it was like, oh, I should have the job already with type thing. But uh I got fired from the traffic school. The guy was like, Well, you're not really showing any initiative. I'm like, initiative to do what? Like, you know, there's nothing to do here. So um, but yeah, so uh got the job at ride, and that was obviously, you know, it I mean, I guess there's more there's why I got the job at ride is I guess probably more important.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 29:15

Um, yeah, started a website when I was a you know, oh fuck, 17, something, 18, I don't know. Uh as I said, Gary was always very good. There was this site based in like Ohio or something, some crew website that I thought was really cool. And I was like, Well, man, the scene out here is really cool. It'd be awesome if we had something to this regard. And so I started a a website like pre-Youtube. Um, and it was literally shot. I just shot everything on this like digital camera that was like a box, like almost like a Hasoblod, but you put the 3.5 inch floppy into it. Okay. So it could shoot some photos and then you load it into the into the computer via that way. No SD card type thing, like a you know, three and a half inch floppy disk. Okay. Uh, and so it just uploaded videos and you had to do like right-click save as or something. Yeah, like so. It's funny because over the years, I've had a few people like they're like, I have every video that you ever posted on the site because I had to download them to watch them, and I saved them because I loved them so much. So it the site became somewhat popular. Gary obviously was super good, so I was connected to him. Uh, we had some local, you know, local brand sponsor both of us, like called Dirt Brothers. Yeah, and then uh, you know, I did little pieces and little filming bits in here, but I was never like a photographer. Uh I I think I was more video, so I never really shot photos.

SPEAKER_05 30:54

I think when the X Games the Jack one.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't think we have the Jack one, buddy.

SPEAKER_11 31:12

Um like when the 97 X Games was in San Diego, I went to Best Buy, bought a film camera, and then shot like two rolls of film and then returned it afterwards. That was my photography equivalent, like when I was a kid. So I didn't, you know, like I didn't I I don't know what I was like going for. I don't think I ever was like, I want to be this or that. I it always kind of, you know, I went to college for a little bit for graphic design, but um like quit college when I got the job at Ride.

SPEAKER_04 31:45

So how um in terms of school, how was that for you? Something you enjoyed or not really?

SPEAKER_11 31:51

Um well, like I said, I I mean during high school, I mean, I worked the entire time. So I felt like I was always good at retaining the information and doing the tests, but I never really had the the time or the energy to do the homework. So I felt like I was always like a a B student in the sense of like I did good on tests, but bad. You and those applesauces, girl.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

She's gonna go through probably like another box at least.

SPEAKER_05 32:20

There you go, Bubs. What do you say?

unknown 32:22

You're welcome. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_11 32:26

Um I so I I think I always uh did good in the sense of like I managed it well enough, but I never strived to do good, but I didn't want to do bad. I knew I knew that. So I I remember when I I started community college and I somebody told me about grants or something like that. And so I I actually applied for all that stuff because again, we didn't have money in any sense, so I I applied for some grants and I got them, and I remember breaking down the amount of hours that I had to be in college or being be in the classroom versus how much money I got in the semester, and I was like, all right, I'm making like $14 an hour in this class. So that's how I like motivated myself to go to class every day. Okay. It was like an effective, you know, yeah of how I would get out of bed and go type thing. Yeah. Um, so I you know, I I didn't, you know, I I never really felt like I was like focused enough to be like this is what I want, this I have goals. I was always kind of just like stumbling my way through stuff, but I felt like it it worked for me. But the the I remember the email from Locy because I was doing a monthly like Southern California news column in the podcast or in the podcast, in the magazine, and I sent him the thing, the report, and then I think a day or two later he was like, Hey, what do you do for a living? Like, what do you do for work? And I replied back, doesn't matter, I'll quit right now. So, like, just I like kind of got what he was what he was hinting at, and I was I was like, Yeah, I'll I will quit. So uh process, you know, did its thing. They had writing samples, and then one funny thing is that he actually asked me to come up to the office to to like talk with him, and I thought in my like 21-year-old dumbness that they were just I was gonna walk in and they're being like, Hey, yeah, we just wanted you to come up here to say congrats, you got the job. Yeah, but it was an it was an interview, and I I had no idea. And so Gary and I drove he drove me up. What year was this 2003? Okay, yeah, 2002, 2003, and we planned on continuing on and going riding bikes all week weekend or whatever, couple of days, and uh I showed up and just normal riding gear, and I sat down and it was like Brad McDonald, Todd Toth, Locce, and they started asking me questions, and I to this day I like blacked out. I was like, oh shit. I did not realize that I'd never really had like an official job interview type thing. This is all brand new to me. So yeah. Uh they asked me at one the one question I do remember is they said, Under, is there any reason that you would quit writing BMX? And I said my reply was, Oh, I always said that if I knocked my teeth out, I would quit. So that was that was the only rant answer I remember. So but yeah, I just Losi told me afterwards that if uh if I ever apply for another job, dress like I actually want it. So Yeah. I was definitely a kid, you know, and I didn't I didn't even have a cell phone for the first like you know, I I was like anti-phones, so I didn't have a cell phone for the first like eight months working at Ride, and finally Lowe's six months probably, but Losi was like, dude, you have to get a fucking phone. Like I I need to be able to get a hold of you. I was like, Yeah, fuck. So uh I didn't get a cell phone until I was like 22.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

So was this in the Tustin office? Tustin office, yeah. Okay. Um backtracking uh a bit, um, in terms of your mom, what did she do for work? Uh good question.

SPEAKER_11 36:40

Uh she was a waitress for the early years and kind of you know, a little bit of property management towards the end and stuff like that. But like I said, welfare and my mom always had um she's she's past, but uh she always had some substance issues and stuff like that. So um, but yeah, she just she's very, you know, like she had a long-term boyfriend that uh we ended up moving in with when I was like 16 or 17. Um but yeah, and I don't know my dad at all. So yeah, so it was all kind of like in the way, you know, uh we talked before, I think before your recording, it was like my son was always like when I said one and done, when I was of age to start talking about that, I always said I wanted one boy just to give him better than I had. So when we had a boy, I was like, luckily my wife was on board, but like and done. So uh it's you know, one of those things.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Um yeah, it's kind of similar to my situation. It was single mom. Um and she you know, worked a lot of different jobs just to keep her roof over her head. And um I always felt like especially with BMX, uh for me, it was like a way to like get on this vehicle and leave and like not be home and like be away from the bullshit that was going on.

SPEAKER_11 38:16

Yeah, it it's my mom was like she's very pretty, so I feel like she had, you know, I have uh really spot and dot memories of being at a house in PB and then getting a ride in like a Lamborghini Countosh, like the one from the posters and stuff, but then that I remember that guy being an asshole, and then a different dude. Uh I guess he did the stunts in the first Batman movie or something in the Batmobile. Like, literally, I remember going to the park and and they were like, Ryan, the Batmobile is here for you. And I'm like, what the fuck is like so? I got a ride in the Batmobile, but we're also living we've only lived in apartments or basically entire life in in PB, single one, but you know, where like we had a room divider in the dining room. I slept in the dining room and she slept in the you know, like not so I had these like touches with like this stuff, and then you know, and then she had a long-term boyfriend, and you know, there was probably some back in the day when you'd have to buy weed illegally and stuff like that. I think he moved a lot of that stuff, and you know, you know, I walked in the garage one time and there was like a huge brick of weed and stuff like that, you know, like stuff like that. Like that was just life growing up, you know, and I think I always I learned by uh miss example.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_11 39:38

So I always like my mom smoked cigarettes, but I have never smoked a a cigarette in my entire life. So it it I learned the mistakes I shouldn't shouldn't make were what my mom did. So and and I wish she was around later in life because I I feel like now that I'm a parent, I would I would give her a little more grace than I probably did in my twenties and thirties. But um, but yeah, BMX was, I think, a lot of that. And I think I was a little angry kid also, too, you know, so I think I think back of how I handled certain things and when I was young and how I still, if I'm don't check myself, maybe I handle that. Like where I talked about the the Hayden thing of like I just assume at points that people are being dickheads when they're just trying to be funny or they're trying to be, you know, and um so it it's one of those things that I think BMX was something that I really really latched on to as like a sense of like outcast and a sense of like nobody else in my school did this, so it was something that I had over top of of them. I know about the secret thing that brings me so much like joy and fulfillment, kind of thing. So uh yeah, I just latched onto it at a point and it became like pretty much everything. So but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

Was there ever any point with BMX where you thought that would be a career, like to be an actual professional rider, or was that never really like something you thought about?

SPEAKER_11 41:20

No, I didn't I try and tell people that I don't think I I've never really thought I was very good at riding bikes. I I've had moments where I've done some cool stuff, but I don't consider myself necessarily a good bike rider, but then also my scale was Gary. And Gary is was an incredible bike rider, where uh and I'm not faulting Gary in any sense, but like because his his path was uh our moms were were uh kindred spirits, I'll just say, in a lot of ways. So uh he ended up living with his grandparents, and his grandparents were much more stable. Um, and so he was able to uh go ride bikes after school. So if I didn't work a Friday or something, or maybe if I I whenever I would there'd be a gap of time when we would ride together because I would work, and then I he would have two new tricks or three new tricks, and it was very hard to keep up with, and and he just had this natural skill set that landed him to be an incredible bike rider, where I felt like I was squeezing a rock in a sense. Um so at points it was like I felt even I was aware of it even back then that it was like we want to sponsor Gary, and I guess his friend too. You know, like one of those things, and I and and that was okay. Like I I understood that I think uh even when we were younger that that it probably wasn't going to be a thing for me. But I also didn't like I said, I wasn't conscious. I I never I never made a goal to do really anything in my life, to be completely frank, like bes I guess besides have one boy. But um I always kind of just took one step in front of the other and whatever, and it always worked out for me in that sense. But um lucky, I guess, in certain ways. But yeah, I I don't know. Yeah. I also think that like I try. You know, like I I think whatever I'm doing, I I think I try to make it good. And so it becomes later in my life that it's become a very frustrating, you know, thing because why does this matter in any sense? Nobody's gonna care. But um it I think it got me to certain places, you know. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

But do you kind of on that totally jumping ahead um for a minute, but do you think that like I always looked at it for me in like my career because I did it for 16 years and there was like a level of like you were saying, you just try, but like also a level of like stubbornness of like I know I'm I guess good at this thing or good enough that there's like a path to make this something. Um so like through hell or high water I'm gonna figure this out. Cause there was points in my career where like I had negative 500 bucks in the bank account and not enough money to put gas in the car to go to a shoot to make money to get back into the just to zero. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm I'm not gonna quit. I'm still gonna just like keep pushing through and like keep trying and figure this out.

SPEAKER_08 44:48

Yeah, I mean I don't know if I if I really had that because like once the like I said, I was always working.

SPEAKER_11 44:56

So even when I I was working when I turned 16, I had enough money to buy a truck because I saved up. And when I was 18, I had enough money to move out on my own. And there was definitely time periods where uh I definitely didn't have money, and I and I there were a couple of serendipitous moments where like I went in the first house that I moved out of, I was fucking dead ass broke, and I opened up my granddad sent me like 200 bucks out of nowhere, you know. Like I think I cried, you know, like one of those things. Uh so it uh when once it started to fall in line, I think it became pretty easy.

SPEAKER_08 45:45

But like when I started at Ride, I I want to say I'm I feel like the starting pay was like 30 grand.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

Yeah, when I got hired at Trans World Moto, I was making $29,000 a year. But I can't and I came straight from working at Target where I'm making eight bucks an hour. Yeah. So I'm like, I think my paychecks after taxes and insurance and everything were like $850 or $900, and I'm like, I'm fucking crushing it.

SPEAKER_11 46:10

Yeah, like this is mind-blowing to me. It I mean, it was interesting in that sense because I was making okay money, and so it was a bump at ride for sure. But I honestly didn't give a fuck. I don't think I looking back, I think I care about it now more than I cared it at then. It was like I would I would probably do this shit for free for the most part. Like this is it, you know. I I guess one thing maybe that I skipped over is I got the job at ride to do the website, to do bmxonline.com at that point.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 46:46

So I was the web guy because again, I didn't shoot photos.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 46:50

And so I did some video work. It was it was a it was a lot about my writing and just kind of like the overall vision that like I could um you know essentially be like a managing editor of the website. I could I could be like, hey, we should do this, this, and this. And uh I think those were my stronger uh attributes at that point. Um, but part of getting the job at Ride was I literally got handed a camera bag with you know pretty much full Canon kit, but it was film. And then uh at that point it was we had the I really would would love to remember the photo name of the photo lab, but this photo lab down the street. I would call them up on Monday morning, have my ziploc bag of film, and then they would come pick it up, and then they would drop it back off at 11 or noon, and then I would have all my film developed and I'd be able to go through everything. So very weird time of me going out uh every weekend and shooting photos of my friends, and I'd have a little notebook of one through 36 exposures, and I would try and keep track of my settings and and what I did and any little notes, and then I would come back, I'd have the film by noon, and we'd sit down with uh Z andor Losi, and they would tell me where I fucked up. And that's how I learned, like a like a rich person, no consequences, a path to shooting photos. Very uh I'm like gracious for that time period because I learned uh so much in a short amount of time on a path that like I don't think many people get. It was like a I don't know, uh a rushed path to being a photographer in that sense. Yeah. So um digital didn't come in for a couple years after that. I remember when Losi got the digital camera, the one, the 1D something, probably Mark I or Mark II, and it was like five or six megapixels, and he would come back with these sequence, and I was like, these things look like dog shit. And uh and it was funny too at that point because I didn't I think Losi didn't never disclose that he was colorblind either. So film wasn't really, yeah. So film always popped the Velvia Provia. You know, the colors were the colors. Yeah, digital comeback back then and it looked horrible. And Losi would, you know, like show his photos, and I'm like, dude, these look crazy. Where I think in the if he wasn't I he was afraid to to pump the colors up because he couldn't see him. So if you look at him, and I love Losi, so I will be yeah, I'm sure he would talk about this, but like if you look at his film photos even on his Instagram or his photo site, and you look at the digital photos, the digital photos are very tame and like the colors are pretty much out out of camera status. Okay, yeah, because he still can't, you know, really he just is like I don't know, the blacks and the whites, and then be done. So yeah, um but yeah, the that that process to learning photos was was uh a magical time period in that sense because I'm because I was shooting with my friends who were good bike riders, but it was like like oh the you know, I could get a photo and ride, we're just messing around, shooting all these photos, just mess it just it was like I don't know, like kind of like salad days type stuff where it was like I hope to do good, but I'm not required to do good.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 50:31

They don't expect much out of me. But it took like a year or something for me to get like a spread in the magazine. But again, I was supposed to be working on the website, so uh it wasn't necessarily like the main focus to get something in the magazine, but the photo side did, I think I I did better than expected uh with the camera bag. So at a point they were like what's that buddy? Elmo's gotta go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

He's dead.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

He's not dead.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

I think the batteries are probably dying in it. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe when we're all done, we can fix the battery. Okay.

SPEAKER_11 51:22

Um I can't remember where I was. Um I know photos, but oh yeah, so the photos kind of ramped up. Like I was I guess I was good at, you know, there was other people in the office where they had been doing the same thing for a while, and and I remember getting a couple of comments like, how have you why are you good at this? And I'm like, Oh, I don't know. Like, I think I I but I think I also tried. I think I I really wanted to be good at it, even not necessarily like ultra like consciously. Like I wanted to not disappoint, I think. I wanted to, I wanted to be of level. Um, so at a point they were like, Oh, we should bring in a a different web person and have you be on the magazine. Okay. So that's and so that's where like video fell off. Photos came in heavy for a long time. And uh and you know, and then I could jump 10-15 years ahead if you want, but but the ride years were great, you know. Like I heard you on the on the Drew podcast where you guys were talking about like a Honda shoot or something, or that was like, come back with two photos. And it was that was the time period. I could go to Arizona and I could be there for six, seven days. And if I came back with six or I came back with like ten photos that were I would we'd go out and party. I'd set up a couple photos for the late day and try and get a golden hour photo and a late evening photo.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

Yeah, that's where the battery goes. Yeah, we'll fix it when we're all done. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 53:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 53:04

Can't even be mad. No, it's too cute.

SPEAKER_11 53:08

Um yeah, like, and I come back with you know, 10 photos for six days, and it was like, holy fuck, you killed it. I'm like, yeah, it's insane. It's a hard, it's it's hard to think of those days being as almost real when now exists.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

You and I had two very different experiences at Trans World.

SPEAKER_11 53:33

I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did. And I love I love Losey. I love Losey, I love Keith, I love Jeff, I love Kevin McAvoy, uh, James Avery, like even Bill Dees, Todd Toth, Brad McDonald, like that whole crew is like, I remember tripping. They're like, you know, one of the first few weeks, Brad comes down and he's like, hey guys, bad news. Um, you know, Trans World's gonna start uh you know, mandatory drug tests in next week. And just wanted to give you guys a heads up that uh that some of you guys may need to sort out something if it doesn't go right. And he was trying to play a trick on me, but I don't I didn't smoke weed, so I was like, oh yeah, no worries, whatever. Meanwhile, Jeff is like, oh fuck, like freaking out, and then and then even Brad like doesn't get the reaction that he wants, and he was like, You don't smoke at all? I'm like, no, I don't, he's like, Fuck, I was just fucking with you. So it's like, you know, it was very cat, you know, there's sometimes it just turn off the lights and then and then it'd be laser tag, you know, like it was just a different, it was an office, but it was like a very cool creative place that were a lot of like-minded individuals were there, and and you didn't necessarily have to worry that somebody wasn't pulling their weight, you know. So that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

Yeah, uh yeah, I my I mean Don gave me my start, so I I really owe my whole career to him because he took a chance on me when I was 21 and probably shouldn't have, even though I was like knocking on his door for years. But yeah, I'm envious of your experience because mine was very much like you fuck up on Saturday, don't come in on Monday because you don't have a job, type of thing. Yeah, that that were those were the pep docs I was getting. Yeah. I'm like, hmm, this is this doesn't feel right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 55:30

The only time Locce ever threatened to fire me was when I was uh two days hungover, like like drank until like six and went to like in Vegas at Innerbike and then was just hammered until like 1 p.m. hadn't slept, and then the hangover just was like it was like a a robot piling down like and I was so hungover and then spilled over to the next day where I was still like deathly hung over and had to and Losi was like fucking gave me the you know gave me the dad talk that I deserved, that I much deserved, and then he told me a couple years later, he was like, I almost fired you. And I was like, I'm glad I didn't, but I almost did. Like, I'm glad to, thank you, Mark. Man, how funny.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Um, how like so before you get hired at Ride, um who were guys like in terms of BMX? I'm at this point, X Games is a thing and whatnot. Yeah. Was there anyone you were looking at that you kind of looked up to or admired in terms of riding and what they were doing on the bike?

SPEAKER_11 56:45

Um I think you know, just in the general sense, I think I always uh I of course loved Mira. Everybody loved Mira. I made like stationary in my like print class in high school and dating myself very much. Um but I always resonated with kind of the terrible one guys, uh Joe Joe Rich and Taj Mahelich, and kind of that anti-establishment, anti-corporation, anti-you know, just the other side. You had Mira on one side that was uh commercialized, and then you had this core side of BMX that uh was the antithesis of that. And so it was easy to fall in love with BMX through what you saw on TV and and all that, but then once you kind of get the the bigger picture and the and and are able to dive into it, that's the stuff that I I really resonated. As someone that didn't grow up with any means as well, and not letting um money drive those decisions, I think, that you made on a daily, you know, the experiences and the travel and the friendships and and stories that you have is more important than than what you put in your bank account afterwards. So that was a stuff that I really resonated with. And then we of course had uh local, you know, local pros, the local heroes.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 58:17

Um Vic Murphy was a a huge influence in the later days, so is uh his business partner, Jim Sibley. Uh, you know, lots of friends over the years, of course. Mike Prenny, Ryan Scher, uh, you know, uh a bunch. Yeah. Too many, of course. But um those those formative years, I think. I, you know, I think I just I think a lot of my childhood and my thoughts on money and success kind of pushed uh you know carry through to even today, I think at a point, you know, excess and and ha uh being satiated, I think is is something that a lot of people really struggle with. And I think, you know, your story with Trader Joe's and and all that stuff, I think like when you first messaged me about the podcast, I was like, dude, I was talking about you like three days ago, yeah, because of just because of the hustle and the endless grind of it and what you get satisfaction out of and and when enough is enough. Yeah, and I think that's it's something that uh a lot of people uh don't get to make that choice. So being able to make that choice, be like, I've had enough and I don't want to do that is a very uh is is a powerful thing for somebody to have to make that decision. Um because sometimes you can't ever do that. But I think for me it carries through a lot of what I I do now and what I don't do, I guess is probably the the other stuff. So um yeah. A tangent 5,000 right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

No, you're good. Um yeah, when I Kelly was on, I was telling the story of like how I ended up at Trader Joe's and why, and it was I mean a lot of like well, it was a big pr big project, and basically they were like, hold the plug on it.

SPEAKER_11 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:19

Yeah, and when you're and there was some other stuff the year before that had kind of let like it was trending in that direction, and yeah, that that project, they I mean, said it a thousand times, but like I'm on a we left the hospital after she was born on a Sunday, Tuesday morning at 8 45 a.m. I'm at the track shooting for a new project, and then on Thursday I'm on an airplane and I'm gone for four months essentially, and then for them to like pull the plug how they did, and there's none paid invoice of like over five grand, and I'm just like I can't fucking do this anymore. Yeah, like I'm so tired, and this isn't fair to myself, my wife, I have a kid now. Like, what I'm mid to late, I don't know, like 36, 37. Like, what are we doing? Yeah, like this is fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_11 1:01:12

It the life of you know being a professional athlete and also being the people that document professional athletes does put a strain on a household, puts a strain on family, and you see a lot of our friends when their marriages don't work out, and it's because you have to be a bit of a selfish person at a point, even even when you are doing the most you can, it's still sometimes not enough because you are gone for these periods of time, and it it um yeah, I mean I've had to in the last year or so, I've had to recalculate certain, you know, priorities and and what I can do and not do. I turned down a trip in two weeks because my wife was like, let's skip that one. I was like, fair, let's skip it. Yeah, it's uh it was a back-to-back one where I was like gone for four to five days and then home for a day and then gone for seven or eight days. And it and and I've already been on a couple of trips so far in the last couple weeks, and and it was like she gets that power, and I'm not going to say not, you know, oh you know, like I'm not going to make it feel like it's a big deal. It's like you win, like no worries. You pull the card, you say you don't want to go, or you say you'd you'd rather have me here, done. Yeah, easy. So it uh that work-life balance and you know being happy what you what you do with what you do is a luxury. And if you do have that, like hold on to it and don't get like too focused on the on the other stuff because that stuff's like the fleeting stuff. Yeah. Unless you get a Lamborghini.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

I suppose, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:03:09

Yeah, yeah. Two Lamborghini references so far. Yeah. 50 episodes, you're the only person who makes Lamborghini references. Um that will I remember going down in that countosh, and I didn't understand this as a little kid, is that the windows don't actually open. It has like a little flap, and it doesn't have AC either. And I remember going down like in like 90s as fuck, or 80s, you know, it was 90s, and going down to like Belmont Park and stuff, or in the Kuntosh. Oddly enough, can't remember what color it is. Must have been red. And uh just the people just being like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:46

And I and I remember just being like, this thing fucking sucks so on here.

SPEAKER_11 1:03:52

Just like whatever my 10-year-old brain was, like, this thing sucks at. That's so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

Oh my god. Um man, that yeah, that's good. Um yeah, kind of on that what you hit on just then about like finding something you're happy with and holding on to it. It's definitely like I've been at Trader Joe's now just about two and a half years. And it's like I haven't I have not touched a camera since November of 2023.

SPEAKER_11 1:04:25

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

And I'm like cool with that. Yeah. Like it's good. And I've had like the first year there were some people that were hitting me up, like, hey, do you want to come on this? Do you want to hop on that? And then like I need the money, yeah, but like it's so far beyond the money. Like me getting behind a camera and going to do something like that sounds I just gave 16 plus years of my life to this thing. Like I I'm gonna start saying no. Yeah. Like I gotta do what's best for me and like where I'm at now. I'm like, I love what I do, I work with really cool people. Um I punch in, do my thing, I punch out, go home, that's it. Yeah, I'm not dealing with emails, I'm not up at 1 a.m. making changes because of a client that said, I need to be changed the color of the logo, and we need it swapped right now. And it's due tomorrow. Um I get a direct deposit every two weeks. Like there's all these things that are I'm not having to worry about anymore. Yeah, yeah. And I we get a discount on our groceries, which is great. Yeah, especially in everything going on in the world. Like, I love it. I'm happy. I have like a lot of opportunity to like grow with the company and move up and like make what I used to make, if not more. And that's like that that's on me. Like, that's not me being reliant on a client or the next job. That's all on me and like how I choose to develop and like grow, or just stay how I am. And like I'm someone that likes to push and progress. So like I'm Trying to like climb my way up and and not really even about the money, just like that's obviously a nice aspect of it and it will help a lot because we've had a tough couple years, but just um I don't know. I've gotten like a sense of like I've a which is weird to say this working at a grocery store, but like I have a sense of pride in my work that I don't feel like I had for a long time doing what I did.

SPEAKER_11 1:06:24

I think I was gonna say is that mine of lately is been uh like woodworking stuff or like almost like general just home improvement stuff, but like like uh again trying, like not just doing something, but putting putting effort into it, and I feel like I'm getting a satisfaction of like the analog physical work in the sense of like it just doesn't it actually exists in the world, and it's it's just a change of pace in a in a sense, and I'm with with things now I wouldn't say I'm like it's the computer is the problem, the camera's not the problem, it's the computer, it's it's sitting down at the and editing afterwards, it's the stuff with owning a business, the all the all the things surrounding that, it's uh you know, I I feel like I get a little bit of uh a little tinge of anxiety when I even open up Instagram and to post something. So it just I don't look at comments, I don't I don't, you know, I I go big stints like six months, eight months without looking at a single Instagram or YouTube comment. And so it it's just like kind of protecting the sanity at a point and protecting the the motivation almost like even at points I see the direct deposits from YouTube, but I try not to like get super in the weeds with the analytics of it anymore because I don't want to do something because it was like successful. If that it's just like a horrible, you know, like yeah, because it did really well and it made money, uh, I'm not going to do that over and over and over again. And it it's just trying to do what you want so you can can continue to do it, like a tortoise and hair type status where you burn super hot, you go in this, but it's not sustainable. And I feel like when again, I guess we're skipping ahead, but when Ride fell apart, I was burning really, really hot for a long time with with RBMX, and I've had to like kind of chill out. Yeah, but yeah, that's that's life too, and I feel like sometimes it's cyclical, and you have the peaks and the valleys with it, so I I surely will you know come back at a point and stuff like that, but yeah, it it it it can be difficult, so yeah, uh absolutely and that's like with we were talking about earlier with the podcast, like I don't have a single sponsor.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

I essentially I kind of lose money doing this just with like hosting fees and whatnot, but like there's no for me, there's no expectation. I'm not like beholden to anybody, I just do it when I want and sit down with whoever I want, and like sure I'd love it to have a bigger following than it does, but it's also like I'm not trying to make money doing this. Yeah, like I just enjoy doing it, and if it was to make money and like have opportunities for sponsors, that's cool, but I'd be like pretty nitpicky about it, and I'd still be like, Cool, but I'm not changing anything, so like yeah, that if you like that, cool. Otherwise, like I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_11 1:09:44

I have two emails, I have like 20 emails in my inbox, and the top two that I I always hit a wall. Whenever I hit an email that I don't want to reply to, all the other emails suffer. So it's like there's easy emails underneath it, but I can't I hit that one. Yeah, but I have like two emails from potential podcast sponsors, and I'm just like, oh, like, I don't know. I don't know what I want to do, and then we have to figure something out, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm not sure. So it's it's I'm I'm I'm a bad businessman for sure. Like, and I and I feel like it goes back to being satiated uh again, is that like making enough money is okay. I don't need to continue to make more and can I I just need to like maintain and do well enough and not and not let other things um fall apart, you know, like and not let my marriage fall apart or not let uh if my kid is going on a field trip, I can be like, I'm gonna go with, I'm gonna shampoo. Yeah, you know, like it being able to do that stuff is more important than than adding a little bit more money to the bank account.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:55

100% so yeah, like her so her birthday is this month, the 25th, and I literally took seven days straight off of work. And like they don't care, they're like, Yeah, sure, it's approved. Whereas like, you know how it is, like self-employed, yeah. You say I'm gonna be gone for seven days for an anniversary or kid's birthday, they're like, What the fuck are we supposed to do? Yeah, like you're you're putting them in a bind and they're pissed at you sometimes. Like, I always feel like there was a lack of empathy in that regard when it came to like doing something for your family.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:30

Um and it's like I don't have to worry about it. Like put in the time off, they're like, cool.

SPEAKER_11 1:11:37

Yeah, go celebrate. No, it is cool. It is uh I've always I've always like uh romanticized the nine to five, you know, or whatever. But Trader Joe's is like the three to three to twelve or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

Uh I'm uh I well my schedule's a little I do a lot of openings, so my openings are like a seven to three, or if I close are two to tens. Um but yeah yeah, and I like my like first jobs I worked at a limousine company taking reservations, I work at Disneyland, I work at Starbucks, I worked at an art store, I worked at Target, and then ended up at Transworld. Yeah, and then did that whole thing into the film career for so long. And I never really thought I would have another nine to five. I thought like this is film thing, is I'm going to die doing this because there's no retirement, there's no nothing, so I'm just gonna make stuff till I die, I guess. Yeah, and then here I am. I'm like, oh no, now I have a retirement plan.

SPEAKER_11 1:12:33

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, fuck. Yeah, I don't know. It's a it is hard. Like, I I had the even leaving the the Hayden thing, it was like, I'm like, dude, I'm fucking old. You know, like wouldn't it be cooler if it was like a younger dude here filming it?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:53

Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_11 1:12:54

You know, like in a in just a objective sense, like not me, not anybody, but just even a younger version of me. Like it just would be it would make more sense if the unclicked was hosted by somebody younger as well. Like if it I feel like going like it's just a it's a young it's a young kid's world in that sense, but I suppose I just don't want to be too old and too out of touch. Like I and I and I feel like I'm good about being like like I said earlier, like I just don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_11 1:13:25

But it's also sometimes hard with like modern day BMX, is sometimes I'm not enthusiastic about it, and I get I get like kind of called. It's not I'm not giving it the love that it deserves, and because I I just don't get it. And so sometimes that catches will be a hang up for it, and I'm like, fuck, like I don't want to be that guy. I would rather somebody else be that really has their thumb on on the nuances of like new age BMX that I'm not getting. Yeah. So and that's you know, and that's mean dropping the ego and and not um not just thinking I know everything, I guess, in that sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:10

But do you think so? I'm curious because I how old are you?

SPEAKER_11 1:14:14

Forty, I'll be 45 in a couple months.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:16

Okay, so I'll be f 40 in December. So like I'm very out of touch with what's happening in BMX because it's I can't relate to it anymore. And like the that era I grew up in of the 90s, early 2000s, like I still like do you remember the bar spinner did that video called Soil? So I it's on uh it was on YouTube and I watched that the other night and I'm like took me right back to like when that came out and just burning out the tape. And I'm like, this to me, this is BMX. Like just it was just style, and it wasn't like and no disrespect to what they're doing now, but I look at it now and it's like video game tricks, and that's not relatable. But going back to that era and watching like Bar Spinner or Stricker or these dudes just do the basic stuff, but do it with so much style. And I'm like, that that's BMX to me.

SPEAKER_11 1:15:13

I think it's important to remember that some kids are out there right now having the best time of their life on BMX and having those same like thoughts of like this is this is BMX, like, and it's just a different version of it. And I think uh that's the the good and the bad part of BMX is that it can be so many different things that it it doesn't um it you know it can be circus tricks or it can be um you know technical street riding or it can be in the woods, you know, throwing dirt for four weeks and then riding for 20 minutes, you know, like it can be so many different things that it's hard to say that this is BMX. So because it is it is so you know, like Moto is a lot in the same sense as the free ride stuff as racing as tricks as all this stuff weekend warrior stuff and all that, but you know, you got star ons now and stuff like that. Yeah, so um that was just for the piss off the motor guys, uh so it but BMX is even crazier. BMX is so segmented of you know, we have flatland, we have uh racing, we have all this stuff. It's fucking bad shit crazy. Like it's there's so many aspects of it that is it's hard to even nail down at points. Yeah, yeah. It but I think the idea of the storytelling and as like a community of having these like pinnacle videos that that uh shaped generations and magazines and all this stuff, and one voice and in a sense of one story being told or several stories through Plus and Ride and Dig and you know, all these magazines that existed was that as a community we are all shaped by the same stuff, where nowadays it's like it it's in the wind, you know, in the algorithm. So it wasn't one kid's experience these days can be completely different with BMX than somebody else's like two miles away. Yeah, and good point, and uh where back in the day it it felt like it was we were all sharing the same experience. And I think we that's why when we saw somebody we were like, we're the same person, but nowadays I don't know if it is like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

Yeah. So yeah, but yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_11 1:17:50

And it's good, and it's good, and it's so good and bad at the same time because when you have these tastemakers, the the stories in the magazines, in a sense, it's like you know, the the effective gatekeepers, you know, made pros and destroyed pros in a certain sense. And and this guy was you know shown to be better than he actually was in real life because he was friends with the photographer and you know he did a couple of cool things, but he actually wasn't that good, you know. Um where nowadays everybody is their own vertical in that sense, and they if they're if they're good, they can show it, but same time it's just a lot more noise, yeah. And and rising above all that stuff is still in the wind for me. Uh you know, like I don't know. It's funny because I'm like, I don't know how it works, but it's funny. I mean, I think I do in a sense, but it's not worth me trying to like I feel like it's a boring conversation of like the algorithm and stuff like that. So it's yeah, yeah. We'll bring back chronological please. I would love it, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:59

I don't get I don't get why they don't think it's better. I feel like people would pick up their phone more.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:03

Yeah, because I I just all I feel like now I would just miss everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:19:07

It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:09

I literally saw something about that last night on Instagram.

SPEAKER_11 1:19:11

Someone it's insane that you you go through the effort to follow somebody and they just don't show you.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:18

It's like, yeah, I'm I mean, but I follow I asked to follow them. Like, why would you not show me the stuff?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:28

Fucking wild.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:29

It's so stupid. Yeah, but um but here's another Porsche GT for real.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:38

Dude, I have a feeling that when I open Instagram, I'm just gonna get like Lambo stuff on the phone.

SPEAKER_11 1:19:42

I mean, I go I go into that thing all the time where it's like it it says like snoozed suggested content for 30 days. Yeah, and I swear it's like it fucking undoes it somehow. Like I'm like, I swear I did this within the last like two weeks for sure. And then you can now you can snooze the the repost stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:01

Yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_11 1:20:02

Like I just snooze my entire phone.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:06

Um so backtracking with Ryan, you you have that interview. What was like the like the time time frame from that interview to like when you finally got an offer and were I think it was within a couple weeks at that point.

SPEAKER_11 1:20:21

Yeah. So um I you know, again, I think I think we I think they had a follow-up question, but they couldn't get a hold of me. You know, like it was like we went up and rode in LA for like two days or something like that, and it was like, you know, just annoying kid shit that I just didn't understand, and I wasn't I, you know, I just wasn't professional in any capacity. You know, like the fact that they hired me was uh kind of in the same vein. It would be I would love to hear Locy talk about it in like a candid manner, yeah, you know, but um yeah, it sorry, what was the question I got?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:59

So I just Oh, just the the time frame from when you had that interview with them to actually getting the offer.

SPEAKER_11 1:21:05

Yeah, so pretty quick, and then um again, me being typical scumbag BMXer, I lived in San Diego, which was you know hour and a half, two hours, uh, because I was pretty deep San Diego uh from the office, and I would like go up there and just sleep in my car. And then I I think I would I would stay at my uncle's in your Belinda occasionally, but I I think I stopped paying rent. I think I was just like homeless for the first like six, seven months, no cell phone, sleeping in my GTI in the in random parking lots. I would get hassled by police all the time. Like it was pretty funny. Just a funny time period of like I'm like, no, I work in Tuston, I live in San Diego, because I'd go to the ride, I'd go ride after working uh at ride, sorry, yeah, yeah, and then and then I'd be like, well, I'm not gonna drive home to come back, so I'll just sleep in my car. Um and then eventually I moved up to Oceanside because I I wanted to be, I still wanted to be a San Diegan. Yeah, Jeff and Long Beach, Losey was in Orange County. I just felt like the proper decision was to remain as close to San Diego but minimize the pain of doing the commute as much as possible. Because especially in the early days, Locy wanted me. If I wasn't specifically out shooting some photos, which I wasn't in the early days, that uh I had to be in the office, which was you know a good decision, it's a proper decision. And uh yeah, and then as time went on, there was the the Losi quit and then Brad left and took Todd Toth for Vital. Um, and then you know that's a that's a whole other thing, I guess, sort of do nerd BMX actually. Um and then I guess I sort of moved up as photographer over the years, and then Mulligan became the senior editor of Ride. And then they, you know, all just glancing, and you can obviously ask questions, but then eventually I moved up to Long Beach. I think a year or two, I fought it for like 10 years moving up to moving up towards the office. I finally move up to Long Beach, and then within a year, I was like, they're gonna close it, they're they're gonna close the Tussin office, they're gonna move it down to Carlsbad. One of these years, I waited like 10 years, and I move up to Long Beach, and within a year or two, they closed the Tuskin office, move it to Oceanside. So now I'm doing reverse commute. Yep, and uh fortunately, obviously I didn't need to be there all that much. Everybody at that point, Jeff was in Long Beach, Mulligan, Orange County. Everybody's up north, so sometimes we would just get together at Mulligan's house or whatever, and uh that went on for a while. The internet, you know, did its did its thing, and uh Mulligan, you know, was let go, I think. I think uh I don't want to this one's a little sensitive because it didn't necessarily end on a on a good note. I think Mulligan was a little in the old ways of certain things, and then he started his uh pet store in Costa Mesa that is has done super well for him. Um and I think he was just a little distracted as well, and so he got removed, and then I was the senior editor or whatever. I don't even know what the title was at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:41

It wouldn't be like editor in chief.

SPEAKER_11 1:24:42

Editor in chief, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

Something yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_11 1:24:48

Um head idiot in charge. Um and you know, it was just a struggle. Like it was a BMX. I feel like uh, you know, in that building we had surf, snow, moto, BMX, skate, obviously, and I felt like pains that reached pains would hit the BMX industry and the things that we would feel and the pullbacks, and then six months to a year later, those other industries in the office would feel that same pain. Um but you know, in that day and age, that those magazine pages and and advertising with Ride was uh pretty expensive compared to what was emerging online and all that stuff. Um and it just was a struggle, man. It was hard, it was hard to like start at the magazine, you know, and I think I was kind of there after the pullback, like those 99 2000 issues, 2001, those things were books, you know. But we we did our best to reformat at a point, and all credit to Mulligan uh for that with going to a larger, better paper stock and kind of focusing on a different aspect of BMX that I think really did good at that point.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:06

Uh Monsters Incorporated. Yeah, what do you want to watch? You want to watch Jack? Okay, we're big. She's gonna be the only almost three-year-old watching Nightmare Before Christmas like every day. She's obsessed. Alright, here you go, Bobby. I know. I know. Um so I'm glad you brought up like the the paper stock and whatnot for Ride, because I remember when I started at Trans World, and I remember seeing your guys' like layouts when you'd go through like proofs and just the wide format, the matte finish. I was like, what the fuck? Like, why are how come we can't do this over here in Moto? Because this is like to me, you guys were making like these like beautiful coffee table books. That's how I I I viewed it. And I'm like, this is so gorgeous. Like I I think I might have like said it to Don one time and oh I'm sure he didn't care, but surely didn't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:27:12

I mean, that was the thing though. It was a big getting that stuff done and getting those changes and selling, you know, the higher ups on those changes is hard, you know. Like it like, hey, we're gonna invest more, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, and then it's gotta have a return, you know, like the the money aspect and how much you had to bring in, you know, the ebita of of estimated earnings before tax I don't know, well all that crap. And uh it was a lot. And it just you could see the the writing on the wall and certain aspects you try and like uh keep it going, of course, and it felt like it felt like a I've you know the failed experiment I failed, you know, to like to keep Ride alive. And I felt like uh guilt in that sense when the print especially when the the print Mac went away. I guess that's more what I'm referring to. The the brand is a whole is a whole is the brand is a whole other thing. But you know, two years before um Ride actually got shit canned, the the magazine itself was like letting that go was pretty rough. So it was like you fucked it up, Fudger. You know, like one of those things, like so it was pretty hard. But that and I think it's crazy because like but at least within BMX, we had you know, we had the another outlet was the come-up, and and the guy had such a strong voice, and it kind of going back to what I said, he did have his thumb on on the new modern BMXers in a certain way, and he created this thing, but he was building up his own uh brand, and he felt like he needed to destroy the traditional brands in order to be successful, which was a bummer because I felt like your girl's doing parkour over here. Uh that was a good save. Uh and it the it was a bummer because I felt like I've and I've heard him actually discuss it in a sense of like, yeah, I I I I really wish I didn't go that hard on on magazines because they do they do serve a purpose, and but at that time, that's I felt like I needed to like knock their tower over for mine to grow. And that's where none of the there was that mutual respect before he came in between plus and even vital and all these ones that we didn't we focused on doing cool shit, and if you if I was the best and you rise to the top, awesome. But we didn't like say we weren't sitting there going, I'm the best, where this is a fucking dining, you know, where just the shit that he did was was crazy, you know. But um it was an inevitable in a sense, but I I wish it could have like kept going to the point where now we're almost back where it would have been if I were able to do print, it would um you know, it would be valued in a sense. But um as it you know publishing companies, print publishing companies, especially uh, you know, how many have truly survived all this shit in the last whatever years? Yeah. So shot uh you know, shells of what of what they once were. So it was impossible to keep a building and staff and all that shit going, uh what it was.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:53

So yeah, it's just it's still wild even after all this time to think like just trans roll as a whole, like those titles, like those were a big deal in these action sports communities. Yeah. And the fact that like I remember that when they just started all getting cut and cut and cut, I was like, Whoa, fuck, that's not good.

SPEAKER_11 1:31:12

I mean, it well for a while I I would make a joke like it was some, you know, you know, some dude from high school that got made fun of by skaters and surfers or something. He's like, I'll get you back one day, and he buys the burn, you know, like he's like some finance guy buys it and then just shit cans at everything, you know, because legacy media through all of them, you know, surfer uh on snow side, every single action sport their legacy media is really is dead or is barely survived. So you know, uh it was cool to see Trans World Skate put out a print title. Um that's still a little bit of a mystery to me how that is going. I don't like I think it's like Shadow Staff by like Blair. Um but yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's crazy, you know, like it's uh everything has to be lean and mean and to survive these days.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:13

So yeah, but do so when the print got cut for ride objectively, I'm I assume that's just the money wasn't wasn't there, but is that something you like you feel like you took responsibility for? Like it was on you that the print got cut?

SPEAKER_11 1:32:33

Um I don't know if anybody could have done anything differently, but yeah, I mean I I bore some of that guilt for sure of letting this title the only magazine that I ever subscribed to as a kid. Uh they sent it to Ryan Froger somehow. Just fucking hilarious. I haven't thought about that in a few decades. Uh and uh I guess and so uh they the only magazine I ever subscribed to was gone, you know, and I was the I was the guy in charge of it. So of course, yeah, it was definitely a bummer. But um when even when Ride went away, there was a goal of doing print in some form. I think, man, I'd have to confirm with Jess Jeff, but uh, you know, we were gonna do a mid school issue and stuff like that and start doing kind of like um, you know, probably biannually books type thing, just uh and tie it all in and have videos that coincide with the release of all this stuff. And uh that's when Ride, you know, officially got canned the you know through purchase number four or whatever from you know like when I started when I started a ride, it was owned by AOL time Warner.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:51

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:33:52

Um would get so many discounts, but it was like that 401k matching, which was crazy, which I was 21, so I was like, I don't need all my money, so I didn't do any of that. But um and then you know that uh ride got bought and sold like six times or something by the end. Yeah. I can't even remember them all. Like source.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:18

When I was there, it was Bonniere.

SPEAKER_11 1:34:19

Bonniere. There was another one in there. Yeah, I don't know. There was and then even when it got it's been sold three times since then. You know, it got by American media or whatever, National Enquirer's parent company. Oh yeah, and then it got sold again, and now it's somewhere, I don't even know. Yeah, so it's just crazy. The other thing that is like the the crushing thing is that uh the internet is not forever, as we have come to find out. The you put something out on the internet and it's it can be fucking gone. Like think of the 15-20 years of content across the board in uh in BMX alone is uh is the vital site around anywhere? No. Is the come up, the one that I mentioned before, is that around? Can you find any of the stuff that they posted? No. Anything from ride? No. You can an entire like decade of stuff is just gone. And that's that's pretty wild. And then it's like as a BMX nerd, and I'm sure it's the same in in in the other in the other action sports, it's just like it's hard to swallow at point. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:37

Umce everything came to an end at Rod and it was done done for you. Do you take a do you take a break? Do you immediately start on our BMX or what's kind of that um process?

SPEAKER_11 1:35:51

Yeah, that day I remember being in the office with or in the in because they had people split in rooms. Like they were like, oh, if you're in going here and going here, and it we were in the room with Moto. Um, and I remember being like, All right, well, we're with Moto, we should be chilling. Like Moto, we weren't like really losing money, we were doing okay. Like, I I don't think we were bringing this up, but as far as I knew, like the snow brand and stuff had been like hemorrhaging dollars, and I had I we had made it like lean and mean enough where Rod was doing okay, and I knew Moto was doing okay as well, so I was like, We should be chilling, you know, like we just bought a house a few months earlier, six months earlier. We just had a kid like nine months earlier. It was like, you know, like I remember talking to the president, and he's like, Oh, you been good? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, like I didn't talk to him while I was like, Yeah, we got the house and stuff like that. I remember I I've like tried to replay it in my head. I was like, Did he have a reaction at all? Like, I'm sure it's business, so it doesn't it doesn't mean anything, but like I was like, damn, it must have been a bad day for him too, you know. Like he's like, fuck, I'm about to fucking let you know, nobody wants that. He's not not a evil person, you know. So um, but we were in that in that office, uh, in that room, and I was just like, I was like, and it just kind of blindsided me, you know. Like I could think of a couple of instances in my life where I was like, whoa, you didn't prepare yourself at all for this. Like you totally lied to yourself and said everything was gonna be okay, and you were fucking asshole wrong, like nothing you thought was right. Um, thank you. So uh we, you know, in my in my head, like I remember being under the thing, like like on my phone trying to change the passwords for shit and stuff, like just being like, like, oh well, this is ours, like in a sense. I can't remember what exactly. Um, but then I couldn't already. Like, I think the moment they walked that we walked in the room, it was like they changed the password to everything, like they're ready to hit the buttons or something. Oh wow. So they tell us that, yeah, like, hey, we're not going to continue with the brands, um, but there is a path. That was the the thing that I vividly remember. There is a path. So they gave us a little um carrot on a stick that we'd be able to own the brands because uh especially for Dawn, Trans World Moto was his. He was there from day zero and he built it up. It was his brand, and if anybody deserves a brand in that building to be able to walk away with it, it was definitely Dawn.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:38:46

Uh so they said there is a path, and we took that as like word is bond, you know. Like, why would you say that if that isn't anything? But uh it turned out that wasn't really a path in any sense. I don't think there ever really was a real um goal of letting us get the companies. Uh I don't think the we never got a number, I don't think Dawn ever got a number. Uh we kept asking, like, how much for the fucking company, how much for Ride? You know, and I was dealing with uh the the head of the company's like right-hand guy, and uh and we had this is my my memory on this is gonna be a little sideways, but basically, National Enquirer, American Media Inc. had this guy, I can't remember the name of it, if you could look it up, but he was like buddies with Trump, and but then he had a thing where he was sending dick pics, I guess. And so there was like some you know, National Inquirer story, basically, his magazine, but like some some controversy where basically it was a shit storm, and then after that dropped, there was no more contact whatsoever. And I was like, oh, basically, from my understanding, it was like the idea of even selling a brand when they're in the middle of this like national controversy would reflect as like that the ship is sinking type thing. Um but in retrospect, I that was what I was convinced with at the time. In retrospect, I don't think uh after I think after talking with us that they kind of realized that probably the tax write-off of the brand failing is more advantageous than actually selling it to us because it if they sold us, they sold a ride for whatever I don't know, $300,000 or something like that, then the brand it it almost devalues all the other brands to that level if you sold it for that. And so when they have all these potentially brands that they're shuttering, they can have it as a tax write-off. Hey, we bought this publishing company, but here's the assets in it that are no longer functioning. Tax write-off. Um, that's what I believe going back. So we there was that process. So once we got let go, we tried to be all anybody that like talked about online, we'd give them a call and be like, hey, can you just like not talk about it? Because we think we're gonna be able to buy the company. And that kind of went on for like a month, and so we were in this mode immediately afterwards of like hopeful, we can buy the brand, see how it goes. Um, and I say we, I mean uh myself and Adam Watkins, who was like the sales um sales guy publisher at at Ride, he had been there for eight to ten years. Um, he worked on both the bike mag and ride towards the end. So um, so I think during that process, it happens on either Jane, I think January 31st, they did it at the end of the month. Uh so I think by April or May we decided to start our BMX. And I think I definitely went through like whatever stages of grieving process, like you know, the denial and uh you know, hopeful, sad, angry, the whole the whole thing. And it credit to Adam Watkins because I feel like I still would have been in my little sad boy phase if he hadn't been like, well, we need to do we need to jump on something because right now ride is gone, all the brands are willing to help us support and stay on, and uh and he was a a big motivator in that sense of starting uh something else. What else did I miss? The ride did give us um severance, which was good. So I had since I was there for about 18 years, I had nine months of severance, so that was a obviously a huge help for being able to start something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:43:03

Um and but for a while I was in like a yes phase of like if I got offered a job, I said yes, no matter what it was. Like I was a researcher for X games of like of like the stats and shit, and but by the time X games rolled around, I was already doing Hour BMX, so I was like, it was a fucking shit show. Like I it was miserable, and I just um but yeah, it was a it was an interesting time period. I don't know. It I look back on it um in an interesting way, I think.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:43:40

Because it, you know, um existential in a sense of like, oh, who am I? What am I doing now? Uh I I did this job for 18 years, it's now gone. Uh do I try and do something else, or do I just go and step away and be like, well, that you know, wasn't that fun? You know, like and that's okay if you step away and go, wow, that was a great time period, but now it's my time to move on. Um so and my wife, give credit to her, of course, because even when I started when we did decide to do RBMX, she was like, hey, let's give it, I'm down, but let's give it six months, and if it if it works, awesome. If it doesn't work, like could be time to to move on. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:35

I don't know. Any questions in there?

SPEAKER_04 1:44:38

Well, it's just it's it's interesting because I agree with you about like if anyone should have got a title, it should have been done. 100%. Um and I don't know if you know, but Trans World Motocross is technically back. Yeah, I don't know who got it or how they got it.

SPEAKER_11 1:44:54

Um they have a title, they have a a a company. If you look at the bottom of the website, it's I think it says it because I I actually was like eight months again, back to my moto ignorance, is that like I was like eight months removed. It had been back for like eight months, and I saw something, I was like, Whoa, what is this? And I reached out to Don and he was like, Oh yeah, it's been back for a while, and he kind of clued me in on stuff. But yeah. They're starting to they want to do ride again, too. Um, so the guy Gavin, you may know him. He I think he was like Hayden Deegan's like filmer when they lived in California, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 1:45:30

Uh he's been doing the the moto stuff for a while, and it's done. I guess it's started to get steam. I don't want to get too in the weeds on his like monetary deal with it, but it sounds like the publishing company is is uh on the the safe end of it in the sense of like they've kind of mitigated any risk and he's been building it up and and done a good job, and then he I guess he made an Instagram story post about starting up with Ride again, and then of course somebody sends it to me, and I just I replied, good luck to him. Like, I mean I again I think I try and be mindful in the sense of of like if Ride came back and it was doing cool stuff, that's a good thing. Uh even independent of like how it affects me or whatever, if it would affect me affect me, I still think it's a good thing. Um but but yeah, the the motocide stuff is Don. I mean, Don and I are we're doing the same thing, like he started his own thing at the same time we were, and and uh and we both made it work and too dumb to quit type thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:39

Yeah, I remember when that came back, Don reaching out to me. Like, we hit we don't talk very often, like we're cool, we definitely had like some issues at one point.

SPEAKER_11 1:46:47

Does he listen to the podcast?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:49

Uh I don't think so. Fuck Don. I don't I don't know. I'm joking.

SPEAKER_11 1:46:54

Sorry, that was unclicked humor. That was that was I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:59

Uh um I've talked to him actually about coming on the podcast, and he's he's like, yeah, let's do it. And then um honestly, I think it's been on me that I haven't really like.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:10

Fuck Don then if you haven't done it.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:11

Yeah, what the fuck, Don? Um But I remember when Transworld Transworld came back and he reached out to me and let me know, and I thought it was weird. I he didn't seem I think had somewhat of the same mentality of view, as like it's a good thing that uh it's back into capacity, but to me I look at Trans World and that's Dawn. Like that should be Dawn. And if Riod were to come back, I I would view Riod as like Fudger Jeff.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:43

Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:45

That's what Ride is to me. To me, Trans World is Dawn. You know. So to ha have Trans World Moto back right now is it is, I guess, a good thing in terms of that's another a avenue to consume your content, but it just seems weird.

SPEAKER_11 1:48:04

It the people that know the know. Yeah, but we're nerds. We're too deep in it. And they and and uh the average person looking at anything doesn't give a fuck who made it. I know and and I don't know. I mean I think the motospace is is a bit different than than BMX, but uh I think uh the the storytelling aspect has has struggled. And so I think if if uh and and I take no uh I take some credit for not being good at that these days, which is a whole other conversation, but um I think if Transil Moto is truly doing cool stuff, then that's awesome. If they're if it's just another version of what somebody else is doing of just going to the races and covering the same things, like maybe that's you know not necessarily needed, but I don't know. It's crazy it's crazy to me that these you know these verticals, these pillars of each action sport just don't exist anymore. It's hard, it's hard to understand that that stuff, you know, like the I have every single photo that's been in ride in my garage. You know, like I don't like I have the photo I have one part of the photo archives, I'm still looking for the remaining photo archives, so that I they have to exist somewhere. So um if if you know, please tell me because I will pay you money. Um but yeah, it it's it's insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:54

Like it's it's sad, yeah, but uh that's that's it is what

SPEAKER_11 1:50:00

I'm sure there's worse examples of shit that's happened out there of like, you know, the world is crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:09

Um when ride shut down and there was kind of that carrot dangled in front of you guys that you might be able to to actually buy it uh back uh for you guys, was there a price tag at all, or was it like we're getting it back at all costs?

SPEAKER_11 1:50:26

Never. I mean we were like we set a number, I think we said like 50 grand or something, but we knew that was bullshit. Like we were just starting somewhere. Um, but they they never once gave us a number. Yeah, I don't think it was ever real. I think it was something to maybe to get us to not talk about it for a bit, or something that um something that, you know, some sort of strategy that I just too naive to understand. You know, uh it yeah, so who knows? The I mean I guess the one thing when we did start um our BMX is that uh never really cared for the name, but that's that's okay. Uh it was hard to figure out what it was. I think just at the center at the time it was like this is ours, like not doesn't own nobody can take it away from us at this point type thing. Um, which again, going to the people that don't uh know who does it, when they see the name now, they're like people are pissed off, they're like, it's your BMX, not our you know, like what is this?

SPEAKER_08 1:51:30

Is your BMX, not our BMX? And I'm like, Yeah, that's kind of the fucking point.

SPEAKER_11 1:51:33

Like, yeah, it's mine, not yours. Like, that's the whole point. If you know the story, yes, you are correct. Like, um, but uh I think a couple months after Mike, I think his name was Micah. Micah, I can't remember Abraham, yeah. Micah Abraham, it was my boss at Ride, reached out. We used to do these uh licensing deals for like binders in Brazil, like BMX, the mock BMX covers on binders and uh South America. I think that was where the biggest market is. Um but they needed not only the photographer's permission, they also needed the rider's permission, and it had to be, you know, just to license the images and keep everything above board. And I guess it was pretty lucrative for them a couple months, month or two after the ride thing happens. We had already started our BMX, maybe five months, and he reaches out and he's like, Hey, we need you know to license these images. Do you have images that you would be down to do? Can you know we'll pay you, of course, blah blah blah. And I'm like, No offense, Micah, but nah, I'm not interested in working with you know, I used to call him the devil. So uh AMI, America Media Inc. I used to call them. I have the I have it in my my emails, brand conversation, AMI the devil. Uh so if you could see where my range of emotions were at the time, you know. So uh being removed now, you know, I don't necessarily I could laugh at that I was so fired up at that point. But um hung up with him. I was like, yeah, I'm not really interested. Thank you. I appreciate it. But uh, and then I you know hung up a phone. I think I was stewing on it for like 20, 30 minutes later, and I was like, I called him back and I was like, hey, actually, I will do it, but only for the at BMX Instagram handle, because that was something that that ride that Instagram itself gave to Ride, like uh at a point like four or five years earlier, they you know, they were like, Hey, uh the at BMX handle is isn't being used. Do you guys want it? And I remember the guy like, hey, do you want this? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, sure. So I used to just post my own photos on it. It used to be just like Ryan Fudger portfolio that I would just because it I guess in my head the it was previously inactive, so I felt like I needed to keep it somewhat active.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:15

And then I would just troll people in the DMs asking asking people to people would ask to buy it, and I would be like, and I would respond back, they'd be like, I'll give you three thousand dollars for this account or so, you know, like whatever number, and I'd be like, Oh, I have to ask my mom and stuff like that, and then I'd be like, I'll get back to you tomorrow and see what she says, or something like that.

SPEAKER_11 1:54:34

And she like so I would just like just troll people in the DMs for like years, it was pretty funny. I used to have like a lot of them that were hilarious, and so uh I call him and I like oh, I'll take I'll do it, but no money, just at BMX. That's all that's all I want. And he's like, All right, well, I'll I'll see if I can do that, and then I'll get back to you. And this is a shout-out to Micah because I don't think he, you know, I don't think he was supposed to, or I don't, I don't know if it was any on a byline of ownership or any sent anything like that, but he made it happen and he was like, but photos in perpetuity, like anytime I need photos forever, you now have to give me photos. And I was like, done deal, because I know this shit's gonna burn to the ground within a year, so not even a problem, man. Like, like you're if you're gonna move on or somewhere down a long line, and then and then it's gonna be over. Like, and so I sent them like two batches of photos, you know. And uh, so then we got that Instagram handle, and that that helped a bunch, like just to build up the brand in a sense of um, you know, like, oh, I like BMX. This is at BMX on Instagram, I'll give it a follow. I think it just it made the burden of of of entry to hit that follow button a lot easier, so we were able to build that up, yeah. Um, and of course, there's backlash within you know, going back to this is BMX conversation was that what I do isn't their version of BMX in that sense. So they were like, there shouldn't, nobody should have this, and I'm like, well, it exists. So do you want the devil to have it, or do you want me to have it? Who's somebody who cares? So it's like I get what you're saying, but like in a utopian world, every single BMX writer on the planet should have to log in and post what they're doing, you know, like like but so puppy mom's own Eleanor.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:35

Hey, you're okay.

SPEAKER_11 1:56:41

So yeah, the the Appy MX handle was crucial in the beginning, and then just having the support of the industry, you know, like there's brands like Source that that just paid us the same amount in the beginning because they wanted to see where they paid the same exact amount they were paying at ride, and they and and it was like a it was great that we had the support of the industry to to rebuild something. So and we got up to steam pretty quick where it felt like at a point we nothing really changed almost, you know. So um yeah, so then uh business partner Armorgeddon happens with with lock-ins, but that's like yeah, I feel like I had heard something about that, like bits and pieces. Yeah, it's uh I mean I still like Adam, uh we're still we're still close enough, but uh he him and his wife split up, just fucking turned his world upside down, and going back to the priority list thing, like were his priorities realigned to it didn't match up with the you know the business and my sanity and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:49

So yeah, but yeah, yeah, that's uh so how long has our BMX been going now?

SPEAKER_11 1:57:57

So yeah, 2019 I think was the the year we got let go. So I mean I think yeah, what is it? Seven years, yeah. Okay. So it's yeah, I mean, I think it's it's good and bad. I mean, going back to what I said, it's like burnout and I'm not a good businessman, I could be doing way more. I feel like my my I have a detractor or two out there in the world that try try to call me out on it, but uh I think it's always kind of like what I said is like uh holler in 15 years, see where you're at. You know, like it I think sometimes it's also when you have um upcoming kids or guys, I don't want to diminish it by calling anybody a kid, but like a a person in it where they didn't grow up with the day rates and the value proposition on on effort and content, and it comes across a little bit differently now for certain people where it's like five hundred dollars, I'd I'd do anything, you know, like we got you know, and it's like it's actually pretty cheap, you know, like it's kinda not worth it. I'm sorry, you know, but it's just a different scale these days, unfortunately, and sometimes that's where my head is at. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:19

I was gonna ask what like having this now, what some of the the challenges are present day with just how the landscape of media and content has changed.

SPEAKER_11 1:59:31

I mean, I think it's you know, you have these like fleeting moments of motivation to do something cool and unique, and then you get a flashback of the last time you did that, and it you put all this effort in and it kind of did fuck all, and and and it you do the math on the hours, and you're like, Man, maybe I'm not so motivated anymore. And so it I think it's a bit of a challenge in that sense, and that kind of goes back to like what I was saying of doing things for the correct reason, like almost in a sense where I I'm saying, like, if I didn't look at those numbers back then, I would be more motivated to do it again right now.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:00:14

And so that's like that's like the the catch 22 of it, you know. But conversely, if it did really well, I would have kept it, you know, like so it's it's finding the motive the the motivation within you to do things outside the box. Yeah. But um overall it's good. I mean, we have I think we're a little bit diversified in the sense of like we have the YouTube revenue stuff that does okay, uh advertiser stuff. I mean, even even like you know, little social media monetization stuff and Spotify from the podcast and stuff like that, um and shirts and things like that. So it's it it all kind of comes together to make it sustainable to be able to like support me and support Jeff and support Albert. Um, and then you know, more on a uh I wouldn't say definitely not a full living wage for for those dudes. So and honestly, not even full living wage for me, really, you know, like it it's one of those things where I I live in San Diego. If I lived somewhere else, it'd be great, but um, and I'm lucky on the side that I do quite a bit of work for Monster, uh and and that kind of subsidizes certain things that I can, you know, you talked about it in the in the other podcast where it was like you do the you do the the paying jobs to do the personal projects in a sense where you know like when I would do stuff with the medium group, it'd be like, oh, this is you know just good money that makes it so I'm not stressed out about grabbing money from within BMX or sweating advertising dollars or or you know anything like that. So it uh that comfort level outside of BMX helps me make the correct decisions within it.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:07

I think that makes sense.

SPEAKER_11 2:02:09

But it's also weird, you know, tariffs, stuff like that. Brands have been brands have been pulling back, all that stuff, but that's again, that's I think the being a little diversified helps.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:22

For sure. But yeah. If it was just you with this or if uh Jeff was still working with you.

SPEAKER_11 2:02:31

Yeah, so Jeff after um after ride, he was more involved um in the beginning of our BMX, and then he was doing some side work for GT bikes, and then that parlayed into a full-time position with GT, and he was there for four or five years or something like that. Then obviously that shit the bed, and and he the timeline's a little bit wonky, but you know, once it was like, hey dude, anytime you want to come back, I'll find money for you. So uh we had, I think we had like two or three other dudes that were helping out, and I was like, you know, just on a smaller level, and I my expectations were very, you know, one of them, and I love him, but he was he was literally like I was paying him, I don't know, thousand dollars a month or something. And and when I went to go let him go, he was like, Well, can I just keep doing it for free? I was like, I was like, I was dying because I was like, you know, in my scumbag head, I was like, should I just have not been paying him this whole time? I could have saved, you know, twenty-four thousand dollars or something like that. But I don't expect much, like, and that just goes to show of like you know, when people get all in this, like uh, you know, and something pops off on social media and they're like, I'm like, dude, it's not that deep. I don't, I don't really tell the guys to do anything. I'm very hands-off, and that's the point, is I try and get people that are passionate and and want to do stuff for their own reasons. And that guy, the guy James was was perfect example. He's like, can I just I really just enjoy it, you know, like and uh it's it's one of those things that um being able to unfortunately pull from those dudes and and pay Jeff more so he can relieve some stress after that shit happens, um was is cool to be able to do. But yeah, for right now it's just Albert, who's basically like my right hand dude. Okay. Um, and then Jeff and and myself. And then we have other contributors that all spot and dots stuff, you know, like the the event that I was talking about that I couldn't go to, I I hit you know, go down the list of hitting up the people that we regularly work with, and I give them a day rate, and it's not very good, but it's also you get a free trip, or you can hang out and and have a little have a little bit of fun, and it's not it's not the worst job in the world.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:04

So yeah. Right on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:05:07

Um what the business side of it is like the not fun side. Oh, it's too much. Uh yeah, it's the it's sorting out money and who gets paid what and all that stuff is like I I have a very uh large distaste of of money, honestly. Like I I I like it, of course, but like I don't I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about that I need to make more, that I that I need to make that I didn't make enough, you know, like I want to be right in the middle where I just don't think about it at all. Yeah. Like I want to be comfortable, but I don't want to be like, you know, there's that the meme of the where it starts on the guy on the in the wheelchair and it ends at the guy in the helicopter, where everybody wants to be wants the next thing, and I'm like, I'm gonna stop at the car. Yeah, I'm good.

SPEAKER_08 2:06:01

It gets to me, and it's like, yeah, hey, look at this thing, it's blue. Yeah, like it turns on.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:08

So yeah, I've said a few times like I got to this point, or I mean when I really started when I left Trans World and went full freelance, like to me the goal was Red Bull, like that was the pinnacle client. And then like you keep building year after year, your day rates go up a little bit more because you're getting a little bit better at what you do. The client clientele comes up, and eventually I'm at this point where I'm my main clients are Red Bull and American Honda and Suzuki and and I'm like, fuck, like I'm shooting commercials for television and whatnot. And I'm like, this is like really gnarly, but I'm also really unhappy. Yeah, because I like you keep moving that needle, I'm like, okay, I achieved this. What's after Red Bull? And I was miserable doing Red Bull work, like so unhappy, even though I'm getting paid like correctly, just not happy. And you're like, well, what's next? Will that make me happy? Never like what was making me happy was going and doing these passion projects for a fucking $200 a day for free. And I'm like, this is how this is this doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_09 2:07:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:07:21

It's uh it's a grind, and I feel like sometimes when it's it goes on for too long, the the excitement of the day rate and the excitement of like I'm here wears off. And I think you're what you're left with is like what you have to like wrestle with. If what you're left with is just contentment of like of enjoyment of where you're at, then that's then you'll continue to do it. But once all that other stuff wears off and you go, whoa, I fucking hate this, then that's when you need to make a decision.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:55

So and I also felt like when you're on, I guess, the outside looking in and you're trying to get to those higher level clients, and you're like, oh man, if I could just get to Red Bull, like obviously like financially that's great, but then I'll be able to do these like really cool things and tell these really cool stories, and then you're there and the stories you're telling aren't as cool because they're being watered down so heavily by these people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and you're like I like I I liked the Red Bull days when I had them.

SPEAKER_11 2:08:24

So I I had uh I had early Red Bull days, like 20 foot when I was like 25, 26, which was arguably probably the the fucking the really good days, yeah. And I almost ended up fighting the guy that was in charge. Uh so then I didn't work for Red Bull for about seven or so years.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:47

Um Eleanor. Eleanor. Who was it who was it?

SPEAKER_11 2:08:53

Uh his name was Regis. I I guess he's very I mean, I think he's even higher up now. I think he's like in Austria or something like that. We're calling him out Regis. So uh he yeah, it was like one of those things, like it was the early days, like I was shooting for ride, but I was also it was a ride article, but I was getting the Red Bull day rate and everything, and they brought what was it? It was Mean Streets. That's it was the New York one. Yeah, and they brought me, DeLeki, and Jeff Z on the trip, and there's three teams, and I can't remember which team I was on because all the teams are supposed to go their own ways, but they just fucking hung out the whole time. So it's me, Delecki, and Jeff Z. The two best photographers. I am a you know 26, 28-year-old piece of shit, and is not as good at shooting photos as they are. And so I was like, I'll take a step back, and like I'm not trying to like joust the people we're all in this together, like we're all shooting for the same thing, so I just let them kind of take the reins. And then he called me out, and I understood calling me out, but I tried to explain it, and then he kept fucking poking at me.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:10

And I just got fucking I had a couple of drinks, and I was like, dude, shut the fuck up. Like I fucking told you why.

SPEAKER_11 2:10:17

If you don't like it, that's fine, but shut the fuck up. Like, and then you know, it was like he had a couple drinks, and it was like I remember being off to the side where they're filming, and I was just like, We were going back on, and I was like, I could start to get a little bit, yeah, I started to get pretty tight. And so um didn't get hired for a while. And uh, and then but when I started to get hired again, the you know, fucking it was a grind, and they would they would run you pretty thin, and then when they started grading you, like they, you know, you would get you would get a grade afterwards, and I remember I had one of them I shot like uh uh Paul, it was a mountain bike shoot on a mountain in Utah, like the first ever natural terrain double backflip. And I shot it from they had another photographer there. He had he set up a fish eye on the you know, it's a guy's riding down a mountain doing all these switchbacks, and then he does a double backflip, and then he continues down the mountain. And so a guy sets up the other photographer sets up a fish eye on the on the on the actual jump, and then he shoots pretty tight, like, and there's really only one vantage point. Obviously, you can switch by 20 or 30 degrees, but it's only you can only shoot it from one side. And he shoots pretty tight, so I'm like, oh well, I'll shoot wide on the mountain, like blah, blah, blah, because that's the whole fucking point, is that he's riding down a mountain and doing this. So the the fish I think is fucking pointless because it looks like a dirt jump. Like, it's not like a you know, it doesn't show anything. And then, you know, I get a call from whoever somebody read. And then they're like, well, why do you, you know, and I'm like, I explain it. And you could just hear and it's like, well, you fail.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:07

You know, I'm like, well, I don't think you get, I don't think you get it.

SPEAKER_11 2:12:10

And then, you know, I find out I got like a D or something on there. And then I like, and then I get like, because I was friends with uh Marv, who was uh Watson who was friends uh like head of the photo files, and he's like, bud, you got a D stuff like that. And I like, ah shit. So it it just was like it was crazy. And then you know, I started working for Monster, maybe overlapped here and there, and it was so chill and and kind of like loose and and cool how they handled stuff, and I was like, this is honestly better. Like it's it as long as you as long as you do the job, like it you're kind of chilling, and that's been like I think the first time I shot for Monster was like 12 years ago, and it's been the same since. You know, more video side these days, but photo at X games and stuff like that, and that's like a fucking treat compared to you know, I have to go to Salt Lake to film uh an event for them next week, and then and then X there's three X games this year, and then I just shoot photos. It's like it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:20

So nice, yeah. Where are the X games at this year?

SPEAKER_11 2:13:23

Everywhere. There's 700 of them, it feels like. But uh Sacramento, uh Tokyo, and then New Orleans. New Orleans, three, three and four weeks.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:34

Three and four weeks, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:13:36

Okay, yeah. It's it's pretty wild. I feel like I'm shooting supercross or something. Yeah, that is like the supercross brand. Yeah, so okay. Um but yeah, so that uh all that to say like it it's cool to be able to honestly piggyback some of those because I get to go to X games for free, stay in a nice hotel. I can shoot content for our BMX and and I can shoot photos because it is somewhat relaxed. It it makes it where I can kind of double or even triple dip sometimes on on stuff of content content and maybe even more money, you know, like even that game, that game has changed so much too. Like the X games used to be like, I'm selling to selling to Fox, selling to Boost Mobile, selling to all, you know, like you'd you'd sell photos, all you know, Toyota, all the shit, and then nobody gives a fuck anymore. Cell phone clip. So but because they don't have place for the photos, yeah. So it's just a different age. And it's like I don't know, trying to be like, well, wasn't that fun? You know, like you can't be like, eh, it sucks now. You go, wow, that was crazy, I got to experience that. And that's like how you um remain a happy person, I think. Yeah, I can understand that. You know, like after you're after you're dead and you're in the ground and you're just like, well, that was fun, wasn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:02

So that's how I've had to look back at like my experience now. I'm like, man, I I lived like a whole life doing this thing and traveling all over the country and working with all these different athletes and brands, and I was talented enough that people wanted to pay me a fuckload of money to come and hold a camera, and that's like a trip, you know, and that's the stuff where you, you know, you're like, like I tell I like already have this story, like for my kid.

SPEAKER_11 2:15:31

I'm like, hey, I know I am not cool right now, but at one point in my life, somebody flew me to Russia to give away an award, and I just drank for three days straight. And then I flew home.

SPEAKER_08 2:15:49

Yeah, I was pretty cool, okay? See if you could do that.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:54

Yeah, is that oogie boogie? Ohie. Um I he's being a bully. He's being mean to Santa. Um yeah, I think about that too with her. I'm like, at some point she's gonna be old enough and like ask about what I used to do. And I'm gonna be able to like tell her, oh, I I did this thing, and I even think about like whenever I'm no longer uh part of this planet and like this podcast will still live on, and she's still here, like she has this to go back and like listen to, like to still like hear my voice and like just stories that I've experienced, and like like that's pretty it's cool. Like I s my biggest flex is I did a project with Tom from Blink one day too, so I'm like tell her that one day and be like I got his phone number. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:16:50

The the as they grow up, like my kid, um just in the last few months was like, I want to go on a work trip with you, you know, because I'll show him videos when I come back and stuff, and then I was able to ironically, uh Gary, uh his kid is 10, and there was uh this compound out in Nebraska, it's called it's called Nowhere, like uh because it's in the middle of nowhere. It's literally in cornfields in Nebraska, and I filmed a different event there, and then afterward, uh they asked Gary to judge uh an event, and he went out there and judged a separate trip, and then they asked both of us back this year, and my kid brought it up, and I was like, Man, I I think they'll be okay out there. And I was like, Gary, and I called Gary and I was like, You can brought this up, would you be down? And he's like, dude, I was thinking the same thing. So Gary and I got to take our kids on a on a work trip, yeah, and they just hung out uh on a like on this compound with all these ramps and just random, you know, they're rolling fucking tires down like a 20-foot roll-in off and setting up ramps afterwards to try and get the tires. You know, there's being little hooligans for like 12 hours while we're we're at this event and they did great, you know, and it's like being able to bring your kids with you at a point is like uh a brand new thing, but it's it was it was very, very cool. So that's cool. Hopefully, you know, he's like, I want to go on the next one. I'm like, but I can't go, you can't go.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:24

So yeah. Um yeah, does does your kid like have an understanding of what you do or what you've done?

SPEAKER_11 2:18:32

Or uh I think he just thinks I do YouTube. Okay. I don't think he really gets it, and then he, you know, like I think he's at that age where you know I have like the little hundredk YouTube plaque, like I have it as high up as possible. Like so you have to look for it, but then I don't think he ever saw it, but then he had a little friend over, and they were like, Wait, what is that? One of those things, and then um, and then from that point when that kid made it sound super cool, my kid has like told people that I do YouTube stuff, and I'm like, it's more than that, but yeah, uh yeah, I'll let you have that. So that's but he's only se I mean he's seven, so you can't expect too much out of him right now, but he definitely uh you know it he's starting to grasp it, I think.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:19

Yeah. Do you want him to go down the same path you did, or you just whatever you want to do? Like you're cool with whatever he wants to do.

SPEAKER_11 2:19:25

I personally, yeah, I don't think I care. I think it would be, you know, because if you ask a kid, you ask any kid, like, oh, what do you want to do when you grow up? It's you know, YouTube is a lot of a lot of the answer. And I try and explain, like, well, that's cool, but you have to have a skill, you have to have something that is worth watching, and then you have to present it in a way, and obviously he's still seven, so he's not really grasping what I what I'm saying, but I think if he I would love to show him cameras because I think that is very important, but what he does with that is totally up to him. I mean, uh so my wife is a recruiter for um in the tech world. So she worked for Coinbase, she worked for Uber, uh, and she works for a brand now, and how AI just like affects her job. And you know, I hear her she's works from home as well. She talks about AI all fucking day, like because her she's dealing with software designers and engineers and stuff and how they implement AI because it's super important. And it's like you had 15 years ago, 10 years ago, where they're sending kids to college and being like, be a software engineer, you'll have a job anywhere in the world, like and now maybe not so much. And I and I I feel like hands-on is the probably the way forward, so it's like he could be a fucking plumber, and he if he knows how to operate a camera and and present and use the the camera to market his plumbing business, awesome, you know, but I think I think doing something with his hands is probably the what I would push him to do. Yeah, so um, you know, and I didn't make a career out of riding bikes or any, you know, like I came back from the from the Hayden thing and I was like, damn, should I push him more? You know, like in a sense of like like Hayden obviously got pushed by Deegan, he had to want it, um you know, but that that concept, I was like, should I push my kid more or should I just let him be a kid? I was like, I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is, but it made me it made me I I never I've never questioned whether or not I I should push him more before. But it wasn't it was inspiring, it you know, the scale of of his success was like incredibly impressive. Yeah. I you know, it was not aware. Yeah. Especially when it's like made me like I felt like if it if I knew what I knew at the end, how I acted in the beginning, not in not even in the the pre-story, but like how I just like how nonchalant and not oh like oh hey man, yeah, nice to meet you. Like I feel like maybe I would have been a little more like geeked out or something like that, because it it was like after the the Yamaha tour of that facility and all the shit that was happening, I was like, damn, this is fucking crazy. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:36

Um only a few more things and we can get this wrapped up. Um with our BMX, is there a long-term goal for you with it?

SPEAKER_11 2:22:49

Like things you had you have like do you want to achieve with it, or is it just trying to trying to balance the books right now, the software on the back end is super t you know. Um yeah, I mean, I think getting to a point where we are creating more meaningful content would be great. Um I think uh the landscape of you know aggregate uh social media, you know, uh unique content versus you know, tastemakers that essentially what the ride Instagram and and stuff was like, hey, here is the best because that's what the magazine was. And I think this is maybe a little bit of a reach, but it's hard for me to get necessarily excited about anything other than the best bike riding, if that makes sense, because working at Ride, it was the best best photos of the best bike riding. That's what got to the magazine, and when it became online, it was kind of carrying that same mantra, hey, here is the cream, the stuff that rises to the top, and so when it's it's stuff that is really great, but not the best, I don't necessarily like resonate with it properly, and I think that's a a hang-up to just how I grew up, but putting my own twist on the best bike riding and and how we post stuff on social media definitely has to change, and I just can't get my oldness out of the way where it's like you know, to this day I've never I've never you know held up a camera and talked into it. Uh, hey, what's up, YouTube, hey what's up Instagram, yeah, you know, like I the few times I've ever talked into like my phone, I've like set it up on the ground, you know, and I like sit down at a table like I'm being filmed, not like walking around filming something. The the idea of talking into my phone or the camera like is still very, very foreign to me. And I think um the because of what I grew up with, and I I documented the other people talking, not me talking. This is all very backwards, like so again, it's a me problem though. So it getting over that is something that the pot of doing unclicked has helped uh to this day. If I open up my phone and it delivers me a video of me talking, it's instantly I like have a reaction of like scroll away, you know, like the sound of my own voice, especially when I'm not expecting it, is like it like shoots through me like electricity. So I I don't I don't like it. I don't like editing myself talk. I it's it's miserable.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:45

It's the the worst thing about doing this, is like I because it's just me, myself, and I like I do the whole thing by myself.

SPEAKER_11 2:25:53

You do not have to listen to this ever again.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:55

So the worst part is like after we're done, I like export it and um I'll throw it up on Dropbox, and then like we go for walks in the mornings and at nights I'll put her in her stroller and we do like a two-mile loop with the dog, and and I'll listen to the episode back because I need to find like sound bites for Instagram for reels, but I have to listen to the whole thing back and I have to hear my fucking voice. I'm like, this is this is horrible.

SPEAKER_11 2:26:20

The only tip I have is double speed. So then you sound you sound more whiny, but you get to the point a lot faster, and it sounds like a a fucked up version of yourself. Yeah. So then it doesn't act, you don't go, man, do I sound like that? Because you're like, oh, I don't I know I don't sound like this. So it actually helps.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:38

That's the only maybe I'll I'll try this with what I listen to ours back for the sound.

SPEAKER_11 2:26:43

I have ones where I I listen to certain like I'll watch YouTube videos at at double speed, and every once in a while I'll play normal, and I'm like, that's what this motherfucker sounds like. He sounds like he's on like what whatever what's the hit the heavier gas where it's like you you breathe it in, you don't roar roar like it sounds insane. I'm like, oh, I thought he sounded different this whole time. So that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:03

Yeah, maybe I'll have to try that for this one.

SPEAKER_11 2:27:05

Yeah. Honestly, if you're if you like the sound of your own voice, you're basically a sociopath. Yeah. I don't know any normal person that likes the sound of their own voice.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:14

No, no, it's not good. No, no. Um so when and for me when I think of like BMX videos, um, we talked about I mentioned soil. So for me it's like soil foxes expendable youth. Uh Road Fools 9, for that was like the first Road Fools I ever saw. It was Mira was on that one. And then Rides Insight.

SPEAKER_09 2:27:41

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:42

I thought I'd take this as a compliment because it's meant as a compliment, but the intro for Insight, I don't remember what the song was called, but I thought that song was so fucking cool. When I started, when I left Trans World and started doing the video thing, one of the first videos I ever did was I used that song, so I'm like, that song's so fucking cool. I'm gonna I want to do it for an intro. Yeah. For for my fucking dirt bike video. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:28:07

It's like that's it. Niv that was Navasio. Okay, yeah. So Ryan Navasio, and uh he is one of the most talented uh filmmakers that has ever like touched BMX stuff. He has such a cool eye for stuff. He if you follow his YouTube as well, because he'll just do you know uh just northeast trails video, and he does all this, he does all this travel photography and travel uh filmmaking stuff. It does like 35 millimeter stuff, and like I'm pretty sure it's 35, maybe it's 16. Hopefully I'm not out of range there, but um, but it's it's all beautiful. Like it's funny because I was actually shooting something. I think when I was in Florida, I was like, I was like kind of lost in my head, like how to shoot certain things, and I was like, I had the thought, I was like, go watch some fucking Navaz footage, okay, and like kind of get your shit right, you know, like because it because sometimes you're just like you've been following your own intuition for too long, and then every once in a while you're like, What the fuck am I doing? Like, why am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? I don't even know anymore. I was like, all right, I was like, I need to get some like inspiration. I literally my first thought was in a pause. So um, yeah, I mean, there's been some magical people that have uh been a part of BMX and they were too talented to stay, you know, and and I and and it's like you have uh Joe Simon is one of those. Yeah, I was gonna say I was gonna say Utah, Utah Ryan, um Ryan Young first, uh you know, Joe Simon, Navaz, uh Harrison Boyce is another one. Yeah. Uh so just I'm sure there's countless more, but that were so talented.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:59

You're like, yeah, I'll see you later, bud.

SPEAKER_11 2:30:01

You know, like everything you do is fucking cool. How's your handwriting cool? How's your you know, like how is that how do you just wear a hat that looks so fucking stupid everywhere else, but you make it look cool. It's like there's just people that have that touch with things where everything they do, you're like, was that a hard decision or an easy decision? Because for me it would have been a very hard decision, but you make it look like you just made all these whatever, and then it just comes out amazing. Yeah, you know, like uh Alex Valentino out in France is like one of those ones for me where I'm like, oh he just fucking knows it's cool. Yeah, and that's like such a talent in itself, you know. Yeah, but I think of the ones that are they think it's cool and it's not, but yeah, it's true. But yeah, there's there's some people where it actually lines up.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:51

Yeah. What uh like for you guys at Riad, um was there any hand you guys had, like you or Jeff or anyone with the making of Insight, or was that all Navaz?

SPEAKER_11 2:31:03

Um honestly that's a funny one because Navaz got hired on to do the video. He was supposed to do a bunch of uh other stuff alongside of it, and he didn't meet that um criteria, and then he I wasn't the boss back then, so I don't I get a pass on any of this, but he you know, and then he like goes there is some I think it got said on our podcast, I'll say it, but like he got he got robbed at gunpoint, like he was staying at somebody's house, and they fucking pistol whipped people and stole the cameras and shit. And so lost like one of the dude's bangers, and then he kind of had like a freak out and was like, I because I think the cameras were owned by Rod or something, and or maybe they weren't, but he bought them or something like that, and he just kind of had a freak out, and he kind of disappeared for the last two months, and we're like, I I remember it was like, Can you just try and call him to like one of those?

SPEAKER_08 2:31:59

And like, hey, we're not mad, you are good. We just want to know if you're okay. Like one of those, you don't have to have the video done, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:32:10

Just just keep us in the loop with what's happening, type things. Um, so the end of it was like maybe more soured on again. I wasn't the boss, so it it's like one of those things like if uh if Mulligan was telling the same story and he he was like, Oh, we were on the line for this, and it you know, shit didn't happen or something. But for me, it was like video is fucking great, we had a great premiere, everything, you know, it's one of the best videos that's ever come out a ride. I don't really give a shit. So that was more just for his um, you know, his sanity in the end, you know, but but Navaz is one he worked for, I think in the same sense, he worked for uh Red Bull for a lot of years as well, and then he was like done. So it I'm sure there's a lot of examples of Red Bull just churning people out and and stuff like that. So it uh it I think you know some people have all the ingredients, some have some of the ingredients, some of they have, you know, they have the talent, but they don't have the acumen to to sell their ability and stuff like that. So but Navaz is is one of the ones that is like you know, talent hand over fist, even compared to some of those other dudes I mentioned, I in my opinion. But yeah, uh he you know, he may not just have the the m marketing sense or the or the ability to or the care or the want. You know, he could have been the same thing looking around the room and he's like, nah, fuck this. And now I'm gonna go film mountains. Yeah. So good for him.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:33:55

Cause yeah, I mean, there is something we had some bullshit last year with like a very, very large YouTube channel taking a bunch of um footage from an event and uh Navaz tried to get it sorted and they basically told them nah and then so I I came in and and like got the video reported, you know, like because I had a little more ability on the back end, and then and then they ended up paying money, and then I tried to give the money to Navaz, and he was like, he was like, No, like stopped responding after I was like, alright, you want money? He was like, stop responding. So but it was like one of those things where I was like, he just don't care, you know, like it was always principle. It was always principle about it for him, I think. And you know, I was like, Well, if you don't want the money, like if you want to do it, if you feel bad about taking the money or something, if I'll I can hire you, you know, and and then just no response. So it's like I love you. So good.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:55

Um anything else you want to add on or touch on that we didn't hit?

SPEAKER_11 2:35:02

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like if anything, I think maybe you know, the idea of of uh people that make content and the people that put stuff out on the internet uh are open to commentary, but commentary is not always needed, I think. So maybe sometimes people forget that, you know, like you post a uh you know photo of your car or something, and people are like, I like that color, uh you know, like, or I don't like that color or something, and it's like it's it's so I feel like the stuff that has like resonated with me in a negative sense has been so um done without thought. If that you know, like it's not even an important little little piece, but just that little that little neg that they put on it, like makes me go, why the fuck am I doing this? You know, and and I think um I think it's always we can all do as people that put stuff out on the internet, you can always do better, you can always do more. The the the internet is insatiable. As soon as you finish one thing, the next comment was a con if you go in the comments and be like, oh, that was fucking great, when's the next one? And it and it will and those if you're doing cool shit, it will that cycle will always repeat itself until you stop doing cool shit. Yeah, and it it becomes um like what am I doing when this will never end type thing, and it's like uh it's it's just it's difficult. And I think I think the commentary and I think the what people put out there in the in in just the the world is should be more mindful, I think, you know, of what of what you're saying and what it it means to that person, but I don't know. I think what I probably people listening to this are like all content creators in a in a in a typical sense, so it's like it it's it's probably pretty uh obvious statement.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:18

But yeah, I feel like too those the people that are commenting, they're usually the ones that have never like made anything, so they don't know what's going on going on behind the scenes to get this thing in front of them to leave that comment.

SPEAKER_11 2:37:30

Yeah, yeah, that that is that is valid for sure. But I don't know. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there that are doing stuff and and are just struggling potentially to how do I say that? Like they're not getting the fulfillment from it, or they think they should be getting more, and then they lash out or something, but yeah. Or maybe we could all just get applesauce. How about a uh That was per perfect timing because I was losing the plot there, anyways.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:06

You saved the day, Violet. There you go.

SPEAKER_11 2:38:10

You welcome it really is just her she my kid who would have never even when he was three, he would have been like play with me.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:25

I dude, I don't know how, like she's so independent. Like from day one, she's been what do you want to watch? What would you like to watch? I wanna watch Mickey? I'm gonna use the rest of it. Yeah, go for it, dude. Then we'll I got some uh questions submitted from the gram that we'll dive into.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:44

You can go potty. Yeah. Luis.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:51

Luis. Um, alright, so Instagram questions here. Uh we got a decent amount. One person asked four, six, seven.

SPEAKER_11 2:39:02

See, I felt self-conscious because you said like legend in there. And then I and then I re and then I reposted it, and I thought about it like an hour later, and I was like, fuck, I needed to say like something about not being a legend on top of it.

SPEAKER_08 2:39:15

See, dude, to me, uh Legendary tryhard.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:20

I look at like when I think of like VMX photographers, I think of you, Z, Locy coming to mind. It's like that's just like my immediate go-to. And like when I was at Trans World Moto, and like I said, I I would love to go over to your guys' side of the office and look at the layouts, yeah, and like look at what you guys were doing from a photography standpoint, because I just thought what you and Jeff were doing were like just so gorgeous. Yeah, like so to me, like you're very like I put um like my wife was at like asking like a little bit about you, and I I like I was like, Fudger and Z are the Garths of BMX, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_11 2:40:04

Yeah, but Garth is like Garth is one of the best photographers I've ever come across. It's you know for for action sports, you know, like if Garth. I remember we were shooting a Dreamline thing, and obviously Red Bull, then I must have been I was shooting for Red Bull. Um and I remember in I love the burn I love the lack of traction that she has.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:01

I agree. Okay, can I put you down?

SPEAKER_11 2:41:09

She's adorable. Um yeah, Garth, you know, he's shooting an event, and I'm like, alright, we're gonna fuck I'm gonna fucking show Garth, you know, in a in a small sense, I was like, like, not that my like I'm gonna fucking beat Garth or anything like that, but I was like, oh yeah, Garth's out of his element, blah blah blah. Like this isn't really his realm. Like, I should be on par. Nah, fucking killed it. Literally, I was like, motherfucker. Like, in my world, he like shit on me. It was so impressive, and you know, not that I ever I you know, like in that sense of like if there's any chance of me ever shooting photos better than Garth, this is it. Yeah, and then nah, he did better. So it it was he's just so fucking good at everything.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:02

Yeah, he is one of a kind, he's one of those guys I've I've always thought, like, man, if he were he could easily leave the action sports nest and go on to do like gnarly, like he I think he he said the same thing though. He's like, Yeah, I'm not really into it. I know, yeah, and I like respect that I'm like I I actually like respect, like you are just content where you're at and you don't have that need to go chase those bigger things. Yeah, I think that's cool. Yeah, I wish I had that a little bit more in my career.

SPEAKER_11 2:42:29

Yeah, it's crazy. I I'm I'm gonna I mean this probably off the record, but like I think about them shooting all those super cross stuff and and selling random images and like he's doing a Yamaha shoot and stuff. I'm like, he must make so much fucking money. He's probably busy all the I know he's gone all the fucking time, but he doesn't have a kid, so that's yeah, okay. But like they m he just must. I feel like I would have slowed down. I don't know. I feel like I too. Yeah, I feel like my you know, being content with stuff, I would just feel like I'd be like, oh dude, I'm chilling next year, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:06

But he just goes, yeah, yeah, it's yeah. Um all right, first thing we have here is from Cindar. Uh yeah, yeah. What were the film days like? No instant feedback, huge drum scanners, failed roles? Question mark.

SPEAKER_11 2:43:25

Yeah. Um I've had a couple over the years of like bad I don't know, like mistakes or something like that. But the film the film days were really cool, just in the sense of like anticipation, you know, and not not knowing exactly if you fucked up or not, and and seeing that photo for the first time, you know, eight days later or ten days later when you got back on a trip was was so rewarding and and like could make or break your day. Um, I think photography at a point, at least with the BMX Street stuff, it did get a little bit routine, even in the film days of like you could pretty much know where to put your flash, the distance, this angle, and then you know what where to get you know what setting and what distance to get 5-6 on your light meter. Um, so it it wasn't necessarily like I think I played it a little more safe because I was learning to shoot photos and I still was a beginner, quote unquote, in in those film days. And then after digital came around, I think I did better, and then I would go back to the Hossoblod and I would go back to that back to shooting film at certain points, and it was cool to be able to do that. But there was time periods, you know, like the Hassoblod, I stopped shooting with it because I had like two photos that were soft, and I and I didn't know exactly why. And it was it was one of those things where I decided that I couldn't risk what I was shooting to for the the cool factor, yeah, you know, for the feel of it or or something like that. So it it a lot of the times with shooting those photos, it was you know, we generally ran it pretty strict, where like the one uh he pulled was the one that was in the magazine for the for the most part, unless there was, you know, unless the photo was objectively better or sharper or something like that, but um, or you decide one angle is better and you moved or something, but uh those you know, if you had a flash that fired, you know, 19 out of 20 times, uh for me that wasn't acceptable. Like it had everything had to be a hundred percent because it it these dudes were you know you know risking themselves in a sense where I felt like if I if I blew the photo it was a nightmare for me. So um the film the film stuff was was really cool, really stressful at points. Um, but I still think some of my best photos are indeed film photos. Okay, you know, and there was tri you know, like I shot a couple of X games on film. You know, I'd have 30 rolls, 40 rolls of of photos afterwards, and it is like that's crazy. Like thinking thinking about having like you know giant bags of film and stuff and going through airports and all that stuff. It was like it was a funny time period in that in that sense of like yeah. I mean, I still I I have two little film cameras that I that I shoot with. I have one of those um swing lens panoramics. Like uh those I love that thing. Uh and then I just have like a little Canon AE1 that I shoot with. And buying that uh there's a little film scanner thing. You get a hundred millimeter macro and it has a backlight, and you can just literally uncut your don't cut your sleeves, so I don't I shoot color negative now and and stuff like that, and you just literally just have it set up and you just pull it through, snap, pull it through, snap, snap, snap, snap, 40, you know, 40 megapixel film scan. It's amazing. So it's it's really cool. It's like actually uh kind of reinvigorated shooting film, yeah. In that in that sense, being able to not you know the film processing is one thing, but the scanning is is pretty painfully painful for the wallet. So yeah, it's I can I can justify the processing, but uh yeah, but even that, like I had a little one bath that I used, and I'm like, uh, it kind of looks like shit. I'm not gonna use this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:00

Um our uh fellow colleague and friend, uh Luis Rodriguez, who was the creative director at Trans Remote Across, and then over at the Medium, uh, he just simply wants to know where's the beef.

SPEAKER_11 2:48:13

Where is the beef? I got lots of beef on the internet. I don't know. Lots of people don't like me, I feel like, but that's okay. I feel like that uh going uh going back, that's you've been around long enough, you certain people don't care for me, but I feel like I have I can't really think of anybody that I genuinely don't like. I I feel like I I try and treat everybody with You need a sandwich, is what you need.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:41

Yeah, we're gonna have some sort of lunch here shortly.

SPEAKER_11 2:48:43

Your Your poop's gonna look like applesauce. You only eat applesauce.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:47

Oh it's true. Okay, what do you say?

SPEAKER_11 2:48:54

Now I know why these podcasts are costing you so much money.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:56

Dude, for real.

SPEAKER_11 2:48:57

So it's like you do get the discount though.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:59

I I do, yeah, but when you're buying these every single day. Yeah. So maybe I do need a sponsor.

SPEAKER_11 2:49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:49:07

Um sorry, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:49:10

Uh I yeah, I mean, I feel like I can only think of like one dude in particular these days that like has an issue with me. And I feel like for a while I just like I tried to kill him with kindness. Like, hey, you know, like I get that you don't really like fuck with me, but like we can still be nice, you know. Like, I don't I don't business and business and like being a decent human are far, far different things. Like, I feel like you can separate that stuff and people, yeah, you know, like my ex-business partner, it's like you know, I didn't go, it didn't end well, and I still would consider him a friend because I understood that there's he just chose to sacrifice me in a sense to protect himself, and I feel like if I was in the same position, I may make the same decision. So I have to respect that in that sense, and I think that's like comes with with age, you know. Yeah, like sometimes. But the beef is in a plastic wrapper in the side of my door. I brought a meat stick with me today, Luis, because I'm going up north and then I'm supposed to be back by four.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:25

We'll get you out of here actually. Uh you might understand this one more than me. Uh Foltz Gabriel. Gabrielle says, let's open up the dialogue between the Americas.

SPEAKER_09 2:50:40

Hmm. Yeah. The Gulf of America?

SPEAKER_04 2:50:45

I don't know. I don't know. Um I should probably put my glasses on.

SPEAKER_11 2:50:52

My kid, my kid is in Spanish immersion. Okay. So maybe once he his Spanish is very, very good already. So maybe in a couple years he can help me with that dialogue.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:04

Um Martin Al Martin Allen Grain Granger. Uh, what do you see in the future of BMX Media Outlets in the next five years?

SPEAKER_11 2:51:17

Uh I think outlets will need to succumb to the the YouTube formula in a certain sense uh to be able to survive via, you know, you have like stories and skateboarding and stuff like that uh that that do a good job, but it it's just one of those things where it's like I what do we say?

SPEAKER_04 2:51:50

You've really impressed Fudger with this.

SPEAKER_11 2:51:52

Yeah. I'd be more impressed if she's just taking all the rappers and just throwing them underneath the couch or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:59

No, she's she's uh she uh so the Red Dead Redemption 2 video game, the main character Arthur, it's like set in 1899 Western type thing, and he'll like eat snacks or whatever, and he just throws them as he's like riding his horse. That's that's her. That's her, yeah. Yeah, just a trail of yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:52:18

Um yeah, I think you know, I think in in BMX, we have like IBDs, like bike shops, yeah. And then you have mail orders, and then which have traditionally in you know, when when you were riding it was Dance Comp and Trend and you know, and Albies and all this stuff, yeah, and they were the big bad guys, you know. And if you buy buy from your bike shop to support your bike shop, and that mantra still exists today, but the mail orders are kind of like the IBDs because they they still uh contribute to in within BMX, but then you have uh an Amazon come in or other retailers like that, and those are the new bad guys, and people talk about a lot this a lot within BMX, uh, which is fair, of course, because bike shops are super super important. But then when it comes to media outlets, you have uh Google, you have Facebook, you have YouTube, where these brands and this goes for endemic BMX brands, and this goes for uh events or general brands that are trying to you know target BMX that uh go straight to that and they don't go to traditional media outlets because they can get they can track and they can get the that instant reward of seeing all the analytics and all that stuff. Yeah. Uh and it's it's gonna be one of those things that it's like I ain't never been to no Google Jam. You know, like and it's and it makes sense, like, but at a point it's those in BMX brands and what we put out has to continue to resonate and it has to continue to do numbers, and I guess what I'm trying to say is we can do all of that right. But if brands don't yeah, you got keys.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:26

Yeah, is that Mickey? That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_11 2:54:29

If if if brands don't s continue to support those and go and at least check to see if something works for them first, then nothing we do will will make it possible to continue. So it what the future is is definitely being more mindful, I think offering uh something that doesn't exist in social media, which is like third-party validation. Everybody's talking about all the cool shit that they're doing, not like what other people are doing in a lot of sense. So being able to at least tell, hey, this is something that you should pay attention to, or this is somebody that is uh doing something different, that sort of thing isn't uh the algorithm can't pick up on because you know it's not uh a see-through uh jogger pants or something like that. I don't know, yoga pants. So it's like that's it, that's the stuff that we have to do, and it it you know, it it's hard because it's like there's not that many media companies in BMX, so a lot of my time gets taken up with these events because the events need that reach as well. So I get contacted about all these all these things happening, and then people are like, Well, we see the event. I'm like, Yeah, you see the event because I'm there covering it, but other than that, you probably wouldn't. And so, but finding that room to do the passion projects and stuff like that is it's an ongoing battle. I have a I've talked about it probably many times, but I have a uh I have a Word document on my computer. It's been on my computer for last six, eight computers, but it's just titled uh Good Ideas That Never Happen because that's what they are, you know, it's just long form things and and telling anything from like the history of tailwinds. You know, like stuff like that. Like it's it's stuff like that, just there's so many ideas, but having the bandwidth and then the monetary support to do them is is always a struggle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:44

So um another question from Martin. Uh how do you this is actually a good one. Wow. Uh how do you navigate the boundaries between advertising and moral journalism? Which is interesting because I have I experienced that at Transworld.

SPEAKER_11 2:57:03

Yeah. I think that I think the lines are a little um more blurred these days. And I think most people I I feel like I have this is the thing is like I feel like I've been in for so long that the the line is so clear what is uh editorial and what's an advertisement. But people don't seem to see what I the same thing, you know, they can't see it through my lens, so it's a lot more gray for people than I think I realize. Um, you know, we get called out on uh posts on the on the Instagram where it's all bought and sold and stuff like that. And it's like it's like we don't really there's no like per post deal brands do get love, of course, on there, but generally if it's a clip of somebody, we go, we go, oh, do we want to post this? Yes. Do they ride for any brands that advertise with us? No, okay, post it, and you don't tag anybody. If they ride for somebody, cool, tag the brand. You know, like it's not really that deep, and then we have stuff that I think is like considered advertorial where it's it's pretty obvious that there's product in there and stuff like that. But it's it's all you know, I think my line these days is a lot easier because I just say no, I don't feel comfortable doing that, you know, like I'm not going to do something I don't want to do. But um I don't, you know, uh yeah, it's hard because I feel like people just see things differently than I do. Where I like, yeah, I'm saying source, I'm drinking a Dales on the podcast because they sponsor the podcast, of course. Like that's pretty obvious, right? But it does taste good, so I'm gonna say it's tastes good. I'm not lying. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't, if I got the beer and I didn't like it, I wouldn't have had them be a sponsor of the podcast. So that's the part of the you know, like well, shoot myself in the foot, but there's a uh a dude that has a a drink company, it's literally pickle juice, fast pickle, and he wants to sponsor the podcast. That's one of the emails, and I do like it. My kid actually absolutely loves it, but it's like just this pickle juice shot that that uh when you're out riding it kind of refills the extra uh electrolytes and the salts and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_08 2:59:25

Like, and I'm just like, man, I don't know, I don't know if I can make this like fit on the podcast. I don't know.

SPEAKER_11 2:59:32

So that's like my hang up, and it's like he's willing to pay, yeah. But if I can't, if I can't make it make sense for me, I'm not going to do it. Yeah, so yeah. But if that answers the question or not.

SPEAKER_04 2:59:45

Yeah, no, totally.

SPEAKER_11 2:59:46

Uh brought to you by Carl Jr.

SPEAKER_04 2:59:49

Uh Arya Zia wants to know. We kind of talked about this already, but uh what it was like growing up in San Diego with so many influential writers around.

SPEAKER_11 3:00:00

Uh Zach. Hi, Zach. Uh with a Z. With a I'm not Z with a Z-E-C-H. Um. Um, I think it I mean, I think it formed a lot of a of the way I am in a lot of ways. I try and explain it to my wife about the idea of you know, bike riders don't complain. You know, if you bitch too much, nobody wants to hang out with you and stuff like that. And those those tough fucking dudes all all formed me in in a certain way, um, to be able to put up with stuff and understand different personalities and be uh, in a sense, maybe sometimes a little bit of a chameleon, and and being like, hey, now's the time to be quiet and not uh be like so over the top, and other times you need to match people's energy because so then you fit in the van. Um it is you know, I had a imminent it wasn't in unique position, I guess, to yeah, I don't know. Like I was jumping ahead, but like one dude I'll give credit to was uh Sean Jarl, who was a uh a pro kind of before my time. But uh somebody he was like an older brother used to come down to the trails and just like kind of manhandle Gary and I, like grab us by the arms, squeeze as much as he could, you know, like and uh kind of just you know effectively like bully us, but in a in a we knew it was there was love in there, like that type of thing. Um, but one day we were in my uh our when we had our BMX house, we were just riding the ramp in the backyard, and I think I I must have started it, or I had a trip or something like that. And my girlfriend at the time and I had other stuff going on, and and Sean was just like, hey, go on the trip.

SPEAKER_08 3:01:58

Go.

SPEAKER_11 3:01:58

That trip's never gonna happen again. Like I have so many, I I don't really have many regrets in my life, but there was a lot of trips and a lot of experiences I missed out on because I had to work and I had to, or I my girl was a little bummed I was leaving, so I didn't go, and he's like, So just go on the fucking trip. And I think that um being a a yes guy and and down for it, even if it was like it didn't make money or it didn't uh you know move the needle in any capacity, you don't know who's watching, you don't know who pays attention to anything you do. Um, but I think that that idea of like not passing up certain things like carried me uh a lot when I was when I was younger in that sense. Because I would do you know, I it wouldn't just get an opportunity and I'd be like, Yeah, sure, no problem, I'll do it. And then oh, it doesn't really pay anything. I don't care, like whatever. And then people would see the culmination, Losi would see the culmination of all the oh, there's Ryan's name on this, where's Ryan's name on this? And then he'd be like, Oh, who was this dude? Like, I see he keep seeing this guy's name or something, and then it led to getting that email. So um it all those dudes. I mean, there's a lot of them over the years, I mean, especially Gary, you know, like Gary, I was the the the yang to Gary's uh yin, I guess. Like he he is a very nice human being, never drank in his life, really, and uh and and I was always a dickhead. But he always like ground he always grounded me in a certain sense, you know, like and we got along so well, and and I obviously I wouldn't be here uh without him because he's the one that literally got me into riding and and uh was the the focus of of uh cameras over the years, and if the if the riding wasn't good then nobody would want to see it. So yeah, but um yeah, I don't know, who else? Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's Mike Gross, Gary Nesbitt, there was this uh there's this dude that was at our old trails, his name was uh forgive the uh not current PC version of it, but his name was Black Chris, and he was always like uh I I never I can never remember his last name for 20 years, and I'm always like that dude was so nice, and he was like such like a cool dude that that uh was a like a good guiding local pro type type guy that uh that just was like uh when I didn't have shit at home, like having having somebody that was like cool and nice was meant a lot.

SPEAKER_04 3:04:48

Yeah, that's cool. Um and then we got Ruby and the DeGrassio brothers. What's that? You need a fresh butt? Okay, we'll do a we'll do a diaper real quick.

SPEAKER_11 3:05:02

Like two and do you uh do you edit that stuff out or do you keep it? I usually just leave it in, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 3:05:07

Yeah.

unknown 3:05:10

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 3:05:12

Rubio Rags be a mix sent in a lot of questions. Oh god. Uh but we'll only knock out a couple of these. Um have you have you ever published a photo that didn't get landed on cough in parentheses, Snowden?

SPEAKER_11 3:05:34

Oh. Snowden, the Snowden thing was before my time, and that that story, I think he said it a couple of times that he did it, photographer messed up, went and redid it, and then it was like the photographer still timed it too early, so then it was like objectively people could tell that it was fake or something. Um I there's two stories to this. I have uh one where we ran a photo towards the end of somebody, I think Kurt Petersol. Uh no shots to him, but uh really gnarly like roof, uh off a roof, wall ride landing on another like downbank of a roof. And it was a sequence, and uh Sandy Carson uh sent it in, and uh I'm just saying names because that's what it is, like a but uh he sent it in and it was a seamless and it was like shot, and it it looked like he pulled it, you know, like he you see him land in the frame, and so we run it, and uh and and then uh Sean Burns calls calls me or texts me, I can't remember, and was like, you know he didn't pull that, right? And I was like, What do you mean? And he was like, he like right after that, uh whatever one or two feet blew off, and I was like, Nobody's had anything to us. We assume that when somebody sends us a photo of something and they they're the last frame is they're on their bike, you know, like that they pulled it. So I don't know if he cropped it out or what, but that was one that like kind of stung. Uh it was a funny one where uh well, I think it was on a trip, must have been a premium trip or something, and uh Ben Hucky and we were in Barstow and we found this like transition, but it was made of like big lava rocks or something, like really bumpy, but it was like a five-foot quarter pipe, and it was at somebody's house, and Ben was trying to uh foot jam nose pick it, and it wasn't like you know, ultra crucial photo by any means, but it was a cool photo. The the quarter the quarter thing was cool. It was a foot jam. I shot the photo, like ain't no lying about like he did the foot jam and then just like couldn't stay on the bike or couldn't pull it correctly. It wasn't there was no lie in the photo that ran. Uh and but we we got kicked out and normally just sticked over. This person was going fucking nuts. So I was like, Alright, let's go down the road, we'll leave. Just Ben, you have to go back and you stay there until you pull it. And nobody else went with him to my memory, and but he came back kind of early, like it happened kind of fast, like, and I remember just being like, You did it for real, like that? And he's like, Yeah. And I was like, Alright. But I don't know, like I on it to this day, I mean, like I took his I took his word for it, so that's why I was like, and it's uh it's funny because Ben had a later controversy with a a dig magazine cover that is like BMX folklore of like this really cool um at the Tigard Park in Oregon where he hand he hand plants a dinosaur, but then he does like a can can upward, and uh there's no footage of it. And it's like one of those ones where it's like where's the footage? Yeah, and like uh deep internet is always like is like you know, when it came out, it was a big deal, and I always like and it I love Ben, but it was like I thought back to the foot jam thing, and I'm like, I don't know, but there's never been one where it was like something wasn't pulled or we ever ran. Like uh we were always very strict on that because uh it would undermine everything else you saw in the magazine almost to a point, like if it if it wasn't real, you know, like I think there's you know, I'm sure there's something over the years where somebody's like, oh, you know, he wrenched that turn down a little bit more and then he blew a foot off, but you used that one or something. Like there could be something like that for sure. I have no idea. But but for the most part, it was very, uh, very, very strict and very, very real. So but yeah, sometimes somebody would get a photo, really wanted to use it, but then their trick face was really bad. Like, you know, it was just like weird considerations at a point, you know, and you're doing it all day, you're like, dude, like this is gonna be a full page, and he's like, like so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:10

Interesting. That's yeah, it's funny that those are things that shooting moto, you don't yeah, you don't have that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:18

Nuance of it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:20

Absolutely. Um I just have a few things I ask at the very end to everybody, just three quick questions. That was it from Alex? He had a but he had a bunch more, but like too much.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:31

Too much, too much, too much in the narrative.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:33

We're already at three hours too, so um we can do a part two.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:40

Uh you should say Alex didn't pull his legendary foofanoo, he case the fuck out of it. So if I shot a photo of that, would we have ran it in the magazine or not? Who knows?

SPEAKER_04 3:10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:52

That's for him.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:54

Um you see yourself as a realist, optimist, or pessimist?

SPEAKER_08 3:11:09

Yeah, that's a that's a hard question.

SPEAKER_11 3:11:13

I would like to say realist. I'm definitely not an optimist. But sometimes the truth is pretty negative, so I always think like prepare for the worst or whatever, you know, like I think uh I think I've learned over the years that like brutal honesty doesn't really get you anywhere, and kind of like just kind of going back to what I'm saying about the commentary is like just saying just pointing out what can go wrong is like kind of an asshole trait in itself. So I think I've gotten a lot better. Credit to my wife, I think I've gotten a lot better at that. Um, so I'm gonna go realist. Alright. 30-year-old Ryan Pessimist.

SPEAKER_04 3:12:02

Um, guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_11 3:12:05

Hmm. Um what is guilty pleasure? I guess my first thought is like uh in the last like year I have this like dumb snake phone on snake game on my phone or something. I don't know. Like I don't really like I guess like that's what I would feel guilty about if I did it and I I enjoyed it for a while, like, and then but I would feel guilty that I should be doing something else because again the internet yeah wants more. Yeah, so doing something, I feel like I'm very, very whatever I'm doing, I'm I'm moving the needle forward in a sense of like any, you know, anything is I'm supposed to be my the chaos of my brain is is it's kind of everything all at once, but I but I am moving the needle a little bit. I'm moving this one here and this one just a tiny bit, tiny bit, and nothing's fucking done, but it's all going forward, and I think the little phone game thing is like a fucking dead stop. Yeah. So I think that would that would be my guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 3:13:12

I feel that I have a bingo game on my phone, but it's like the same thing. I'm like, oh my god, this is like taking up too much of my time.

SPEAKER_11 3:13:18

Yeah, it's like uh yeah, you get this, you get this like feeling every once in a while, and then you're like chasing after the feeling. Yeah. It's very weird. It's actually like I get pissed off at it. Like that it I've like deleted it from my phone like once. I almost did it last night. I was like, fuck this game. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:13:34

Um, and then last thing, uh if we had dinner, dinner with three people dead or alive, who would they be?

SPEAKER_09 3:13:41

Oh man.

SPEAKER_11 3:13:46

I have two, I'm just trying to think of the third one. I think my third one's not very good, but I'll go with it.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 3:14:12

I got two third ones. Both are stupid though. Not as stupid, but uh it's not meant to be disrespectful, but like they're not, I feel like they're not the correct answer, but I'll but I'll say them anyways. Yeah. First would be my mom.

unknown 3:14:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_11 3:14:26

Uh second second is Anthony Bourdain.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:29

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_11 3:14:31

Very random, but it put both of those two popped in my head like right away.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:36

I think I'm pretty sure someone else recently said Anthony Bourdain as well for this question.

SPEAKER_11 3:14:40

He always just seemed like such a uh a real person. Like I I I don't give a fuck about any celebrities in in that sense, and I and I felt like if I ever saw Anthony Bourdain, I would have been like, buddy. Like I would have just I would have actually been geeked out. Uh so those two, my mom for obvious reasons, uh, and then I I said I had Mira, Dave Mira, uh another one of those ones where I think I I don't think full geek out, but like if you know uh he did Nora Cup, which was in November, and I think he um he passed away in March, the following March, so like five, four or five months after. And when I asked when I called him up to to do Nora Cup, I hadn't talked to him in a long time, like two years or something like that. And he answered the phone, hey Ryan, what's up? And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_08 3:15:40

Like, yeah, one, you know who I am, two, you saved my phone number?

SPEAKER_11 3:15:45

Like, it was a it was a fucking that just that alone was like a trip to me. Yeah, um, but yeah, going back, like did the stationery of of of Mira when I was a when I was a kid and like eighth grade, ninth grade in high school. Uh magical human being. Uh Anthony Bourdain, uh just one of those people that uh felt like you could through watching him on TV, you felt like you could like learn so much from him because he was he was so uh lived multiple lives and and and nothing was realized that like life isn't perfect through him. And then uh I don't know. The fourth one is stupid, I'm not even gonna say it. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:30

All right.

SPEAKER_11 3:16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:16:31

Um I'll go with that. Uh that was like over three hours.

SPEAKER_09 3:16:35

Was it? Yeah. Yeah, I can talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:16:37

I normally don't. So that was solid, dude. Yeah. I'm stoked. Thanks for making the time of course I've been trying to make this happen, so I'm still working.

SPEAKER_11 3:16:45

Yeah, I'm sorry about the first the first round. It would have been cool to have you come down just because it would have been fun. I would be insane to sit on the other side of the table. That would have been funny.

SPEAKER_04 3:16:53

But it would uh yeah, it would have been cool. Yeah, yeah.